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Old 08-05-2021, 13:04   #16
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

Hi,


I sailed the west coast of spain and portugal. I have a boat in saint Lucia and am in the middle of a similar situation..


Re the check out and in to the country.. Suggest you leave Lisbon and sail to Baiona and check in. Check out of there and sail back to Lisbon.. You could also store the boat at the Marina Davila Sport which is cheaper than most.. Key point is to check in/out elsewhere before coming back to Lisbon.


Re the TI like you I intended to sail the boat back home last year but couldn't get to it.. The SL customs authorities have been very understanding and issued extended TIs due to Covid. We are caught between a rock and a hard place and it is recognized by them.. Suggest you have an open conversation with the customs.


Re paying Vat this is assessed usually on the value of the boat. If its old and with a low value it may pay you to import it and sell it there rather than bringing it home.. Portugal is a good market to do this in..


But then what do I know about anything ;-)
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Old 08-05-2021, 13:54   #17
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Hi Cylon..
Sailing to Baiona would not resolve anything, Spain is also a Schengen country and would be regarded as a coast hop, not actually leaving the EU.
As the owner is happy to pay the IVA (VAT) I don't see any problem, arrive at the boat, get her ready for sea then head for Morocco/Gib non stop.. if anyone says anything when you check out of the marina just go "Oh.!!! Sorry, I did not realize that I would be liable due to the Pandemic preventing my return.. where do I pay and who do I see to register an appeal".
To the best of my knowledge Portugal is still closed to flights from the US.
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Old 09-05-2021, 11:36   #18
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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....It and each and every accoutrement is valued at its fair market value upon first entry, plus the cost of customs duty and insurance and transport delivery to the EU, a.k.a. CIF Customs, Insurance, Freight to an EU territory.Do I have to reflag the boat? Flagging is not a factor for importation,
You have said this elsewhere before regarding the costs of importing to the EU ...specifically that the value of insurance and transport is included in the VAT calculations.

I would challenge that. Having just imported a used Aries windvane into Spain, I only had to pay 6% customs duty on the stated value of the vane and the 21% VAT on the combined value of the vane plus Customs duty. No fees were levied on the cost of the transportation ( which was more than the stated value of the vane) ) nor the shipper's stated value for insurance purposes.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:13   #19
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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You have said this elsewhere before regarding the costs of importing to the EU ...specifically that the value of insurance and transport is included in the VAT calculations.

I would challenge that. Having just imported a used Aries windvane into Spain, I only had to pay 6% customs duty on the stated value of the vane and the 21% VAT on the combined value of the vane plus Customs duty. No fees were levied on the cost of the transportation ( which was more than the stated value of the vane) ) nor the shipper's stated value for insurance purposes.
Sounds like you got a deal.

By way of example.

For customs duty purposes.

15. Delivery costs
15.1 What are ‘delivery costs’?
These are:

the cost of transport
the cost of insurance (including global or blanket policies)
loading and handling charges
container charges (for example when hired for transportation of the imported goods)
terminal charges (charges for a variety of services in connection with the handling/storage of freight containers at container depots)
any other charges involved in carrying the goods from one place to another

15.2 Are all of the costs to be included in the customs value?
No. Only costs up to the place of introduction of the imported goods into the UK border are to be included.

Remember you must include in the customs value all inland transport and associated costs in the country of export.


15.3 Where is the ‘place of introduction’?
Sea
If the goods are delivered direct to the UK the place of introduction is the port of importation into the UK.

Air
The place of introduction is the point where the UK border is first crossed during the air journey.

Road, rail or inland waterway
The place of introduction is the point where the goods first pass a customs office - this is usually the point when the goods cross the UK border.

Post
The place of introduction is the address for delivery, for example, your office or home.

15.4 Can I deduct UK transport costs where they are included in the total freight charge?
Yes. If the freight is charged separately and distinguished, the freight charge can be apportioned to arrive at the value for the journey after the UK border.

For goods transported by sea the freight charge that would have been paid to the place of introduction is to be included in the customs value. Rates shown in rate books or otherwise advertised by the shipping line or other carrier are usually acceptable.

For goods transported by rail or road the freight charge is to be apportioned using reasonable means for example by distance covered outside and inside the UK. Section 39 gives other examples.

The percentage of the air transport costs shown on the air waybill to be included in the customs value are published on GOV.UK. The percentages are listed in section 40. Importers connected to CHIEF can obtain details from the relevant data files.

Remember locally agreed rates for UK transport costs for VAT purposes must not be used for ad valorem Customs Duty calculations.

15.5 Can I deduct UK transport costs where they are included in the price I pay for the goods?
Yes, a deduction for these charges may be made from the price you pay, provided they can be distinguished and evidence can be produced to support them. Section 39 gives examples.

The following would be acceptable as evidence:

the amount shown separately on the seller’s invoice
a certified statement or telex from the supplier
an invoice or certified statement of the actual freight amount charged by the carrier to the buyer, seller or agent
an invoice or certified statement establishing the total cost of transport, split to show the proportion of actual distance inside and outside the UK
a statement from the buyer referring to a schedule of freight rates normally applied for the same mode of transport
in the case of goods imported by air, a statement on the invoice confirming that the cost of freight included in the price is the same as that stated on the air waybill

15.6 What if the transport is free or I provide my own transport?
You must include in the customs value an amount for transport costs to the UK border. You can calculate this amount by using the freight rates tariff for the type of transport used, for example IATA rates for air transport costs, or conference rates for sea.

15.7 Is the cost of insuring the goods against loss or damage in transit to be included in the customs value?
Yes. You must include the cost of insurance for the goods up to the place of introduction into the customs territory of the UK. However, if you pay a premium which covers the whole journey, the cost of insurance after the UK border does not have to be included in the customs value provided you separately distinguish this element. Also, where there is separate cover for the journey after the UK border, the cost of this separate insurance cover does not have to be included in the customs value.

Remember if your insurance covers more than one importation, or relates to other items as well as the imported goods, the cost of that insurance must be apportioned and the appropriate amount included in the customs value. An example of how to apportion a periodic insurance premium to individual consignments is provided in section 39.

Value For Import VAT

The value for VAT of imported goods is their value for customs duty purposes (whether or not duty is actually due) plus, if not already included in the price:

Any customs duty or levy payable on importation into the UK
Any excise duty or other charges payable on importation into the UK (except the VAT itself)
All incidental expenses such as commission, packing, transport and insurance costs incurred up to the goods first destination in the UK
All such incidental expenses where they result from transport to a further place of destination in the UK if that place is known at the time of importation

The relevant legislation is Section 21 of the VAT Act 1994.

22.8.8 Incidental Expenses
In addition to the examples given above, the term “incidental expenses” also covers such items as customs clearance charges, quay rent, entry fees, demurrage, handling, loading and storage costs. Generally, where supplies of services qualify for zero-rating because they are supplied in connection with an importation of goods, the cost of those services should be included in the value for import VAT.

In most cases, the services to be included in the VAT value are charged to the importer by a third party, eg an agent, freight forwarder or hauler. However, when a particular service is provided by the importer, eg own transport, the cost may be left out of the value.

Charges for certain services received from outside the UK – most commonly royalties and licence fees- should not be included in the value for import VAT as they are taxable under the reverse charge/international service arrangements. For details see VAT Notice 741A (Place of supply of services).

22.8.9 First Destination
‘First destination’ is the place mentioned on the consignment note or any other document by means of which the goods are imported. So, for example, where goods are consigned to Birmingham via Dover (and the import documentation shows that) Birmingham will be the first destination for import VAT purposes. In the absence of such documentation, first destination means the place of the first transfer of cargo in the UK.

22.8.10 Further Destination
If a further destination in the UK is known at the time the goods are imported, costs resulting from the transport of the goods to that place must be included in the import VAT value.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:33   #20
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

FYI

If you import a boat and its accoutrements sourced from the USA into the EU then it will be subject to customs duty which as I understand it will be the combination of the standard import duty plus a retaliatory 25% duty which retaliatory duty is scheduled to be increased from 25% to 50% next month, June 2021, unless the Biden Administration resolves the tariff war with the EU it will just get uglier and boaters will become collateral damage.

The EU in the summer of 2018 in retaliation for the tariffs introduced by the US on the import of EU steel and aluminium products [Trump's implementation of Section 232 tariffs]. Included is a 25% tariff on the import into the EU of US-origin new and second-hand yachts and boats, and a wide range of other products, although not all marine products. Goods such as marine electronic and electrical products, marine safety products and sailcloth fall outside their scope. Sailcloth is probably one of the main recreational marine imports from the US.

Mind you that VAT will be imposed on the value for customs purposes plus the custom duty, plus insurance and freight. So for Portugal, that means presently one is looking at 25+% for duty, plus 23% for VAT, so more than 50% of the value of the boat as the boat is valued landed / delivered to the Azores your first port of entry.

I perceive that you will desire to keep the boat in its temporary admission status and NOT import it into the EU. Just discharge the temporary import every 18 months. Gibraltar is a short hop, skip and jump, or to the UK [or Morocco] gets it exported from the EU and then return anew.

Now since the UK Brexited from the EU, the retaliatory tariff of the EU discontinued on January 1, 2021 for imports of boats and accoutrements into the UK from the USA.

All the best.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:52   #21
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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Originally Posted by datswite View Post
I have searched the forums and haven't really found a good discussion that answers the sorts of questions I have, so I am starting a new thread.

We arrived in the Azores in June 2019 after crossing the Atlantic from the Caribbean. From the Azores, we sailed to Lisbon and immediately placed the boat in storage (July 2019). We had to return to the US to care for my dying father. Our intention was to return to Portugal in late spring of 2020 to continue our cruise into the Med (doing the Schengen/TI dance).


Any ideas/comment/help?!?!?

Thanks!

You are in Customs offense, Custom lawyer don't care you,die,sick,airplane ticket.

What to do.
Simply don't talk with anybody.leave EU water, police check out and sail to Marocco, Tunisia,Turkey. If Custom asks you talk about your story.But you are in Customs offense and possibly lose the boat and pay VAT.
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Old 09-05-2021, 14:05   #22
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
As the owner is happy to pay the IVA (VAT) I don't see any problem, arrive at the boat, get her ready for sea then head for Morocco/Gib non stop.. if anyone says anything when you check out of the marina just go "Oh.!!! Sorry, I did not realize that I would be liable due to the Pandemic preventing my return.. where do I pay and who do I see to register an appeal".
To the best of my knowledge Portugal is still closed to flights from the US.
Yes, but I would sail north and put the boat in storage in the UK. If you can't do it then pay for a delivery crew to do it for you. After all you already speak the lingo, the customs rules are transparent and we kind of like people from the colonies

Gibraltar may not be a solution for resetting the TI either, since I believe there are plans for Gibraltar to be part of the Schengen.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-of-gibraltar
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Old 09-05-2021, 14:26   #23
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Yes, but I would sail north and put the boat in storage in the UK. If you can't do it then pay for a delivery crew to do it for you. After all you already speak the lingo, the customs rules are transparent and we kind of like people from the colonies

Gibraltar may not be a solution for resetting the TI either, since I believe there are plans for Gibraltar to be part of the Schengen.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-of-gibraltar
Gibraltar and Spain have asked for approval of the proposed Schengen inclusion of Gibraltar with Spains border patrol controlling the entry to the EU / Schengen from Gibraltar but that pertains only to the immigration travel. If the proposal is approved by the EU then indeed time spent in Gibraltar will apply to the 90 days in any rolling 180 day period limit of visa free travel with in the Schengen region.

Gibraltar was never a part of the EU custom's territory and it is not now after Brexit, so EU customs and VAT rules do not and will not apply to importation to Gibraltar. For discharging of the EU Temporary Admission / Temporary Importation can still be accomplished by entry to Gibraltar and thus reset the 18 month time period.
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Old 09-05-2021, 14:35   #24
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Gibraltar may not be a solution for resetting the TI either, since I believe there are plans for Gibraltar to be part of the Schengen.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-of-gibraltar
Gibraltar will be in Schengen but not in the EU VAT area.
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Old 09-05-2021, 15:45   #25
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
Sounds like you got a deal.

.
No, sounds like you got it wrong, and that there is probably more at play than your cut&paste suggests.

The shipment was arranged by iContainers and it was cleared on this end by their affiliated customs broker, and then delivered to my door by their local delivery partners. I doubt they do deals.
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Old 09-05-2021, 16:34   #26
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

Okay so you paid what you paid.

But the following provides information on major regulatory efforts of the EC Taxation and Customs Union Directorate: With which Union you can take up any further differences with.

The Union Customs Code (UCC) was adopted in 2013 and its substantive provisions apply from 1 May 2016.

CHAPTER 3

Value of goods for customs purposes

Article 69

Scope

The customs value of goods, for the purposes of applying the Common Customs Tariff and non-tariff measures laid down by Union provisions governing specific fields relating to trade in goods, shall be determined in accordance with Articles 70 and 74.

Article 70

Method of customs valuation based on the transaction value

1. The primary basis for the customs value of goods shall be the transaction value, that is the price actually paid or payable for the goods when sold for export to the customs territory of the Union, adjusted, where necessary.

2. The price actually paid or payable shall be the total payment made or to be made by the buyer to the seller or by the buyer to a third party for the benefit of the seller for the imported goods and include all payments made or to be made as a condition of sale of the imported goods.

3. The transaction value shall apply provided that all of the following conditions are fulfilled:

(a)
there are no restrictions as to the disposal or use of the goods by the buyer, other than any of the following:

(i)
restrictions imposed or required by a law or by the public authorities in the Union;

(ii)
limitations of the geographical area in which the goods may be resold;

(iii)
restrictions which do not substantially affect the customs value of the goods;

(b)
the sale or price is not subject to some condition or consideration for which a value cannot be determined with respect to the goods being valued;

(c)
no part of the proceeds of any subsequent resale, disposal or use of the goods by the buyer will accrue directly or indirectly to the seller, unless an appropriate adjustment can be made;

(d)
the buyer and seller are not related or the relationship did not influence the price.

Article 71

Elements of the transaction value

1. In determining the customs value under Article 70, the price actually paid or payable for the imported goods shall be supplemented by:


(a)
the following, to the extent that they are incurred by the buyer but are not included in the price actually paid or payable for the goods:

(i)
commissions and brokerage, except buying commissions;

(ii)
the cost of containers which are treated as being one, for customs purposes, with the goods in question; and

(iii)
the cost of packing, whether for labour or materials;


(b)
the value, apportioned as appropriate, of the following goods and services where supplied directly or indirectly by the buyer free of charge or at reduced cost for use in connection with the production and sale for export of the imported goods, to the extent that such value has not been included in the price actually paid or payable:

(i)
materials, components, parts and similar items incorporated into the imported goods;

(ii)
tools, dies, moulds and similar items used in the production of the imported goods;

(iii)
materials consumed in the production of the imported goods; and

(iv)
engineering, development, artwork, design work, and plans and sketches undertaken elsewhere than in the Union and necessary for the production of the imported goods;

(c)
royalties and licence fees related to the goods being valued that the buyer must pay, either directly or indirectly, as a condition of sale of the goods being valued, to the extent that such royalties and fees are not included in the price actually paid or payable;

(d)
the value of any part of the proceeds of any subsequent resale, disposal or use of the imported goods that accrues directly or indirectly to the seller; and

(e)
the following costs up to the place where goods are brought into the customs territory of the Union:

(i)
the cost of transport and insurance of the imported goods; and

(ii)
loading and handling charges associated with the transport of the imported goods.


2. Additions to the price actually paid or payable, pursuant to paragraph 1, shall be made only on the basis of objective and quantifiable data.

3. No additions shall be made to the price actually paid or payable in determining the customs value except as provided in this Article.

Article 72

Elements not to be included in the customs value

In determining the customs value under Article 70, none of the following shall be included:

(a)
the cost of transport of the imported goods after their entry into the customs territory of the Union;


(b)
charges for construction, erection, assembly, maintenance or technical assistance, undertaken after the entry into the customs territory of the Union of the imported goods such as industrial plants, machinery or equipment;

(c)
charges for interest under a financing arrangement entered into by the buyer and relating to the purchase of the imported goods, irrespective of whether the finance is provided by the seller or another person, provided that the financing arrangement has been made in writing and, where required, the buyer can demonstrate that the following conditions are fulfilled:

(i)
such goods are actually sold at the price declared as the price actually paid or payable;

(ii)
the claimed rate of interest does not exceed the level for such transactions prevailing in the country where, and at the time when, the finance was provided;

(d)
charges for the right to reproduce the imported goods in the Union;

(e)
buying commissions;

(f)
import duties or other charges payable in the Union by reason of the import or sale of the goods;

(g)
notwithstanding point (c) of Article 71(1), payments made by the buyer for the right to distribute or resell the imported goods, if such payments are not a condition of the sale for export to the Union of the goods.
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Old 10-05-2021, 03:00   #27
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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Okay so you paid what you paid.

But the following provides information on major regulatory efforts of the EC Taxation and Customs Union Directorate.
And my point is that all this mumble jumble you cut and paste has little value absent the experience or expertise of actually knowing how these regulatory mandates actually apply in real life situations.

Had I taken your comments regarding the calculation of VAT seriously when you last made them on this board, I would not now have a windvane for fear of the excessive cost of importation.

There's more to real knowledge than google and paste.
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Old 10-05-2021, 05:38   #28
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

Lot of technical stuff and legal mumbo jumbo but reality is it's unknown territory and likely no clear rules.

I'm betting most authorities are going to be pretty reasonable. You have a good explanation that you intended to follow the rules and the country's limits on travel created a catch 22 and prohibited you from doing so (Force Majeure) but hard to say without getting a response from the official who will actually sign off.

You might technically be in the right but if they impound your boat for a year and it costs you $20k in legal fees to get it released...does it really matter if you win in the end?

If you just slip out of port, you might get away with it but if you get caught sneaking out, expect them to assume the worst and rake you over the coals.

Not that I have the "answer" but it's a case where no one likely has the true and final answer. You might contact marina where it's stored and feel out the situation as they likely have multiple boats in a similar situation and they might be willing to make inquires without calling you out directly to the officials.

Any answer you get on this forum is unlikely to be definitive in real life.
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Old 10-05-2021, 06:27   #29
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pirate Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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Lot of technical stuff and legal mumbo jumbo but reality is it's unknown territory and likely no clear rules.

I'm betting most authorities are going to be pretty reasonable. You have a good explanation that you intended to follow the rules and the country's limits on travel created a catch 22 and prohibited you from doing so (Force Majeure) but hard to say without getting a response from the official who will actually sign off.

You might technically be in the right but if they impound your boat for a year and it costs you $20k in legal fees to get it released...does it really matter if you win in the end?

If you just slip out of port, you might get away with it but if you get caught sneaking out, expect them to assume the worst and rake you over the coals.

Not that I have the "answer" but it's a case where no one likely has the true and final answer. You might contact marina where it's stored and feel out the situation as they likely have multiple boats in a similar situation and they might be willing to make inquires without calling you out directly to the officials.

Any answer you get on this forum is unlikely to be definitive in real life.
As I said.. the best solution is... as the OP is happy to pay the IVA.. just arrive ASAP at the marina and prep the boat as normal for departure then settle accounts and head for Tangiers.. what many don't realize is the Schengen countries have a centralized 'marina' data base for all boats that enter their territory, any and all info on movements are logged at marinas and checks are carried out randomly at anchorages by Policia Maritimo patrols where they cruise through and check boat names then return to base where they enter them into the data base and see if any flags come up.. if a boat is Flagged you can bet they'll be back within a short time to inspect the boat.
When the OP has prepped and is ready to sail, carry out normal departure procedure and state a Moroccan port as the next destination, settle all accounts and sail.
If there is any IVA matter to be settled the OP will be informed when he goes into the marina office on his return or sometime before he sails, I would be very surprised if he will be allowed to sail so the marine police can have a jolly chasing him and escorting him back in.
If this was a Lagoon 440 or the like with a high IVA value things 'may' be different however an old Morgan of low value will likely just be ignored.
Just be polite, friendly and cooperative, don't do anything to get their backs up... the Portuguese can be incredibly nice or.. Incredibly Stubborn.. I live here..
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Old 10-05-2021, 11:57   #30
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Re: Portugal: Temporary Import/VAT and COVID

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You have said this elsewhere before regarding the costs of importing to the EU ...specifically that the value of insurance and transport is included in the VAT calculations.
You were lucky. The rules explicitly state, that shipping is part of the value for VAT calculation. In nearly all cases I had to pay in the past VAT for the shipping too.
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