ICC in Greece - Laws vs Reality

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by swagman

If you can't be bothered or have no facility to get an ICC or similar then I suggest you test yourself, issue yourself with a nicely offical looking document in Swedish. Provided you are not forging a real document, you cannot be in the wrong.

Before I can do the Swedish coastal skipper course I have to pass a "boat driver" exam which I must have for at least a month. Hopefully that comes as an official looking document

[simonmd]

Maybe I could have put it better that way. The Eastern Med' can be a funny place, part 'normal Europe', part wild west! I'd have been better saying 'you should have something' and an ICC is one of the easiest things to get.

The fact is, like I said, if the local officals want an excuse, then not having one would make it easier for them. Doesn't matter whether you hold an ICC, an RYA Yachtmaster or an IYT certificate, if you have niether then the end result will be the same.


I know there are sailors out there who have many years of experience out there but have no official qulifications, however, an official who want's to make a few quid will not take that into account. The best way, in Europe at least, is to get an ICC and then you're covered. If you're entering the Med' from the West, as most non Med' sailors do, stop off at Gibraltar or along the costa del sol in Spain and get one. For a few hundred Euros, it could save you a lot of hassle later on.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by simonmd

stop off at Gibraltar or along the costa del sol in Spain and get one. For a few hundred Euros, it could save you a lot of hassle later on.

The problem is that you cannot legally get an ICC unless you are a citizen or resident of the issuing country, or at least that is how the RYA does it.

According to this Wiki entry, only 22 countries (9 Eu) have adopted the ICC

Also on Wiki "If a British skipper wants to skipper a non-British registered vessel then he/she must be qualified per the regulations of the country in which the vessel is registered."

So even if I could get an ICC from the RYA, for example I work in the UK at least 182 days to be classed as resident, the ICC would not cover me on my soon to be Swedish registered yacht.

International Certificate of Competence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to someone from a school I spoke to at the boat show in Stockholm last week, Sweden is perhaps 5 years away from going ICC. Given the way they have been umming and ahhing for years about making a boat licence mandatory, 5 years could be on the optimistic side.

[simonmd]

Strange, I live on the Costa Del sol in Spain and know at least two Spanish based RYA intructors/schools who will do an ICC for a British person in Spain. Maybe its the fact that the RYA is based in Britain so it's ok if you're British but I assumed that it worked for other European nationalities as well.

Personaly I did my ICC in England but I was offered a few times to do it out here, only the fact that the UK was cheaper made me do it there.

[hoppy]

There is probably no restriction on where then RYA can hold the course and I'm sure I can even do the ICC exam with them, but they cannot issues a non-Brit or non-Brit resident with the ICC.

[OmerBarlas]

As a Turkish member I would like to tell something about the ICC in Turkey; there is no way that you can get an ICC in here. You can get an international seaman document or a private boat captain license, but it's not the same thing as an ICC. The CG usually do not stop and ask for your documents frequently in Turkey, especially to foreign flagged vessels.

For the Turkish and Greece waters, all you have to obtain is a valid transit log, nothing else to go between islands and through the Aegean sea. Yes, the Greek and Turkish officials might be a pain in the ass, but this is because there is too much human trafficking through sea vessels, and they want to prevent this as much as possible. You wouldn't believe how many boats are stolen through the year for this purpose.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by OmerBarlas

You wouldn't believe how many boats are stolen through the year for this purpose.

Ohh, that is great to here when I have a boat about 4nm from Turkey

[Roaring Girl]

The 'proof of competence' (of which the ICC is just one type) raises similar issues to ship registration. If you come from a country which doesn't need it, but are sailing in a country which does, then acquiring a bit of paper that satisfies officials can be a headache. You can waste a lot of time on forums like this bickering about the legal basis for such demands, or complaining about the inconsistency, but none of that's a lot of help in the face of the guy asking (who is doing his job as he sees it, and is the official representative of the state where you are).

So for registration and competence, it is worth finding a way to have a satisfactory bit of paper for these situations as almost anything you do will be preferable to the fines and legal workload. The RYA developed the ICC and the UK Registry created Part III of the Small Ships Register precisely to deal with these lacunae. Neither document is in itself exactly analogous to eg Spanish equivalents - you can get the ICC on its own exam or on the basis of other RYA courses, and the Part III registration proves very little indeed - but they're extremely useful to have.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by swagman

For that kind of situation alone it is worth getting something in print and ideally under plastic saying you are qualified.

If you can't be bothered or have no facility to get an ICC or similar then I suggest you test yourself, issue yourself with a nicely offical looking document in Swedish. Provided you are not forging a real document, you cannot be in the wrong.

Cheers
JOHN

I like this, self certified!

Maybe a new make money idea, a certification service that issues a certification based on whatever they decide to use as requirements. - take this 10 question quiz, get 6 right and recieve a nice certification of qualification!

[DoubleWhisky]

As a Free Non Profit Public Service we can arrange it here, perhaps?

[OmerBarlas]

Originally Posted by hoppy

Ohh, that is great to here when I have a boat about 4nm from Turkey

I'm sorry if i have exaggerated a bit, but I'm not talking about hundreds of boats here, won't be more than 20 I guess, so calm down is your boat in a secure marina, or where?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

As a Free Non Profit Public Service we can arrange it here, perhaps?

LOL

Just to add to the confusion quite possible for the Foreign Skipper of a Foreign Flagged vessel to genuinely be required to have a "paper qualification" if he and / or the boat is resident in that country (or regarded as by the Officials concerned )..........if that rule also applies to the locals (some countries like that sort of thing ).

Of course if you / boat become resident somewhere unexpectedly (or unsurprisingly after 10 years of only the odd side trip somewhere else ) then a paper sailing qualification may be the least (cheapest? ) of your problems..........

[swagman]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

LOL

Just to add to the confusion quite possible for the Foreign Skipper of a Foreign Flagged vessel to genuinely be required to have a "paper qualification" if he and / or the boat is resident in that country (or regarded as by the Officials concerned )..........if that rule also applies to the locals (some countries like that sort of thing ).

Of course if you / boat become resident somewhere unexpectedly (or unsurprisingly after 10 years of only the odd side trip somewhere else ) then a paper sailing qualification may be the least (cheapest? ) of your problems..........

Sorry, can you say that again?

JOHN

[yeloya]

I visited almost all of the Dodocanese islands and never, ever I was asked for ICC. In Turkey, the general rule is that you should have a documents enforced (if at all ) by yr country of origin. Logically it should be the same everywhere. If I am allowed to sail offshore in Turkey, why I shouldn't be in Greece or elsewhere.
All this is valid for cruising on yr own boat. If you want to be a skipper on a commercial boat (regardless the size) that's a whole different issue..

Moreover, in Greece (like pretty much in Turkey) the legislation is vague and every official act according to his mood. I happened to be caught once without properly completing the entry formalities in Simi. They took me to the police station, they were very kind, we had couple of phone calls and the issue was solved.(no bribes..)
But I know in the same spot one charter boat has been confiscated and kept for weeks simply because the ship papers were not originals.

Cheers

Yeloya

[Jacques2]

Hi !
I agree with Yeloya...
It looks like owners who have their SAILboat in Turkey or Greece and have been sailing there for years have the same experience : ICC is not required...
But no matter..., congratulations to those who have one