Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS

[NornaBiron]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You have a rather " precise" view of the way things are done in Greece !

Dave

Not at all, I've spent a lot of time here and am fully aware of GMT (Greek Maybe Time). I'm waiting to see what will happen when we visit the Port Police between Christmas and New Year to make a month's payment. Watch this space for my report!

[athene]

Originally Posted by NornaBiron

Not at all, I've spent a lot of time here and am fully aware of GMT (Greek Maybe Time). I'm waiting to see what will happen when we visit the Port Police between Christmas and New Year to make a month's payment. Watch this space for my report!

I'll be fascinated to see your report. My money is on a totally blank look and a plea to go away until Easter (the Greek Orthodox one, that is!).

[beneteau-500]

I am willing to bet you wont be able to pay the tax because under all the new laws etc they have reworked the tax system, I.E you must have a tax Number and all payments are to be done electronically i found this out last week although i have a Greek tax No, due to owning property.
before i would just rock up when ever taxes where due and pay but they have changed the whole system and it took me 2 days to complete new electronic payment and to link my tax No up in the system

[NornaBiron]

Originally Posted by athene

I'll be fascinated to see your report. My money is on a totally blank look and a plea to go away until Easter (the Greek Orthodox one, that is!).

Hope so, that's when we're planning to leave!

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by Alenka

What I can tell you is that charter operators are no happier than private owners about this tax. Many, even after the discount, will be paying many tens of thousands of €'s each year. They have not had time or notice to budget this cost into charges!
Their business will be affected and so will be the many thousands of people who book charter boats. Work into this equation that many charter operators will replace and phase boats in and out of their fleet throughout the year and you will appreciate that they could end up paying two lots of tax for a single line of sales!!

Clearly the long and short term aspects of this tax and its implications have not be thought through the authorities. It will hit some of the smaller villages and communities very, very hard and ironically raise little in the overall scheme of things.

That's another side of the story..There are many customers who are chartering from Turkey to visit both Turkey and some Greek islands. The extra cost of doing so was about 150-200 € and was affordable. Now for 50 ft boat they will have to pay 1.500 € extra or the charter company will pay upfront this sum on a yearly basis, then allocate a part of it to those who wants to visit Greece. If noone goes to Greece with this boat it's a money down the drain..
Whereas greek charter companies will only pay half of it (if they ever pay, I am sure they will find a way to avoid it) and they can charter the boat to those who wants to visit Greece + Turkey (there is no such a tax in Turkey for greek boats..) at a much better price. That's unfair competition..

Secondly, if the tax is charged by length only, the multihulls will be clearly incentivated..45 ft catamaran has the volume of 54 ft mono

And lastly, the boats which are already in Greece both in land or sea should be given a reasonable "mercy period" to leave Greece if they choose to do so.
Otherwise, it's a robbery..You make a yearly contract for a certain amount of money, you pull out yr boat and in the middle of winter new tax is implemented effective from Jan 1st when you are sitting in the UK, US or Australia..
I still belive (and hope) that this tax will never be implemented or be implemented "diluted" with plenty of derogations..

Cheers

Yeloya

[Alenka]

Originally Posted by beneteau-500

I am willing to bet you wont be able to pay the tax because under all the new laws etc they have reworked the tax system, I.E you must have a tax Number and all payments are to be done electronically i found this out last week although i have a Greek tax No, due to owning property.
before i would just rock up when ever taxes where due and pay but they have changed the whole system and it took me 2 days to complete new electronic payment and to link my tax No up in the system

Interesting post!

If this is how they intend to collect money from cruising boats then clearly it is a doomed failure from the outset.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Alenka

Interesting post!

If this is how they intend to collect money from cruising boats then clearly it is a doomed failure from the outset.

No for visiting boats you will have to pay the tax before you can get ( and payt for) the transit log or the Depka

Dave

[rivonia]

It really is simple. You will be instructed to go to the TAX office to register, pay a small fee €o.85. Be given a tax number. Back to port police show them receipt and then PAY

[Alenka]

Originally Posted by rivonia

It really is simple. You will be instructed to go to the TAX office to register, pay a small fee €o.85. Be given a tax number. Back to port police show them receipt and then PAY

Please tell where did you find this information?

Every translation that I have seen says the tax must be paid electronically. Does this mean credit/debit card or bank transfer.
Have you found this out from first hand experience?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Alenka

Please tell where did you find this information?

Every translation that I have seen says the tax must be paid electronically. Does this mean credit/debit card or bank transfer.
Have you found this out from first hand experience?

See my post a few post ago which contains a translation of the original Greek law. You will pay electronically for the full year. Visiting boats will pay when they apply for the transit log or DEPKA.

Dave

[rivonia]

Originally Posted by Alenka

Please tell where did you find this information?

Every translation that I have seen says the tax must be paid electronically. Does this mean credit/debit card or bank transfer.
Have you found this out from first hand experience?

We had to get a tax number so this info that I gave was how simple it is to get the tax number. I have always payed cash BUT they do accept credit/debit cards.

[athene]

I was under the impression that it is now the responsibility of the Greek Minister for Shipping and the Aegean (who, by the way, is in Japan at the moment) to determine how this tax will be implemented and collected and then to brief the port police and Hellenic Coastguard. There may even be some significant changes by the time it's fully implemented.

Unless someone here has the inside track on the internal discussions going on at the Ministry, it might be wise to wait for further information rather than indulging in speculation.

[Alenka]

Originally Posted by rivonia

We had to get a tax number so this info that I gave was how simple it is to get the tax number. I have always payed cash BUT they do accept credit/debit cards.

So you have paid the new cruising tax for 2014?

[Alenka]

Further to my post last week I have now had the following communication from my Greek associate in Athens. He is actively involved in the yachting industry and speaks fluent English as well as Greek (of course) so I trust his interpretation and translations far more than any Google translate!

Here is his communication based on a visit dated 13.12.2013



"I was in the tax office last Friday! Unfortunately, they don't know how this duty will be paid, when and if someone has to gain a tax number in order to pay it. I am sure that this will take an extension and for this year I think that we can pay this after December! What your friend told you about the tax number has a basis but it is insane if they ask for this. In such case, no yacht will approach Greece next year and onwards. However, there might be a chance to ask you to issue a tax number as you have your yacht permanently docked in Greece and maybe this would be essential in order to gain the 30% discount. All these are speculations and let's see what guides the Ministry will send to the tax offices and I will keep you updated!"

(end of quote)


It would appear to me that the Ministry has still not yet issued procedures for the collection of this tax. Perhaps certain tax offices and port police are jumping the gun?

Interestingly he uses the work 'docked' for my boat which he knows it is out of the water. Maybe the Greek word is all embracing (with no direct translation) unlike the English which generally means in the water, although as already pointed out we have the expression dry docked!

[jckb]

Originally Posted by Alenka

It would appear to me that the Ministry has still not yet issued procedures for the collection of this tax. Perhaps certain tax offices and port police are jumping the gun?

That's correct. the British Cruising Association, and the equivalent German and Swedish sailing organisations, are all making contact with the Greek Ministry of Marine in order to clarify the tax and suggest changes which would make it more acceptable.

In order to put strong pressure on the Ministry of Marine and Aegean to open their doors to us, in UK we are writing to our Foreign office, pointing out the apparent breach of UNCLOS lll, which Greece has ratified, caused by the wording of our translation

"[the tax] applies to all [types of small boats] . . . sailing . . . in Greek territorial waters".

This appears to deny "innocent passage" to small boats by demanding a tax from them. This is probably not the intention of the law, but such a conflict is unacceptable.

We would suggest that all British sailors possibly affected by this wording contact their MPs to point out this conflict, so that one or two MPs will rattle the cage of the Foreign Office to listen to what the CA has to say about this.

Reference material (law and translation) is reproduced at New Greek Cruising Tax | CA

JimB