Vaccine Certification Restriction of Travel

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by deathcruzer

The issue is that we are NOT entitled to our own thoughts and opinions...this vaccine is being forced on us WHY?........one assumes if people want to take it then they will not be bothered by the virus...that means the rest of us take our own risk....thats up to us...but it doesn't seem to be...we will all have to accept it...that is what worries me. Conspiracy aside what exactly is going on?....

History shows many times over humanity suffers from 'The Lemming Effect'..
More commonly known as Mob Rule..

[deathcruzer]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Does this really need answering? In most jurisdictions, it's not going to be forced on you. But, like educating your kids, or other common innoculations (measles, polio, etc)... if you choose to opt out, you will need your own plan B.

Incomplete assumption about why getting vaccinated is important to society. You are welcome to take all the personal risks you want. But you don't have the right to create additional risk for others. At this time, the lowest overall risk to everyone is to achieve herd immunity through vaccinating 70+% of a population. Til we get there, the additional physical measures (social distancing, attendance caps, lockdowns) are still required to help keep the overall caseload down. The sooner enough people get vaccinated, the sooner we can lift all those measures.

Why is this so hard to grasp?

Its not...but the vaccine is supposed to protect you...go have it and let the rest of us make our own minds up.
Coercion is no different from making it mandatory the result is the same you don’t have a choice that is wrong in my own view. The bad news here is the vaccine is not going to protect you from the new strain nor the strain that comes after that or the strain that comes after that this is going to go on for a very long time anybody thinks otherwise it’s pretty naive.

Some virologist already feel that we reached herd immunity in june....already, naturally, that being the case why do we even need the vaccine?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by deathcruzer

It’s interesting to note that the CEO of Pfizer will not be taking the vaccine ..... doesn’t exactly instil confidence that does it

Interesting? Maybe.

Confidence-shaking? Not really.

Pfizer CEO, Albert Bourla, said he hasn’t received his company’s Covid-19 vaccine shot yet, saying that he, and other executives, will not “cut the line.”

Originally Posted by Albert Bourla

"I'm 59 years old, in good health, I'm not working in the front line. So, my type is not recommended to get vaccinated ...
... On the other hand, our company ran a lot of polls to see what would take people to believe it, and one of the highest ranking, even higher than if Joe Biden takes it, even higher than if the other President takes it, it is if the CEO of the company takes it ...
... So, with that in mind, I'm trying to find a way that I would get vaccinated despite that it's not my time, just to demonstrate the confidence of the company...
... We have made the decision that if we have to do that, we will not do it with our executives. So, none of the executives or board members will cut the line, they will take it as their age and occupation type is ..."

[deathcruzer]

Its not gold....its easily available to them...and encouraging the population by showing the way would be a good use of the vaccine...i’m not sure i believe them....

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by deathcruzer

The bad news here is the vaccine is not going to protect you from the new strain nor the strain that comes after that or the strain that comes after that

Um yeah, it looks like at least one vaccine will be good against the new variant too. And I expect that once enough people have had COVID, or gotten vaccinated, and it hopefully mutates to something less severe, COVID-19 will at worst become just another 'flu.

Some virologist already feel that we reached herd immunity in june....already, naturally, that being the case why do we even need the vaccine?

If you reached herd immunity in June, there would have been no surge in cases after that. We need the vaccine to get there.

[deathcruzer]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Um yeah, it looks like at least one vaccine will be good against the new variant too. And I expect that once enough people have had COVID, or gotten vaccinated, and it hopefully mutates to something less severe, COVID-19 will at worst become just another 'flu.

Thats the point ...it is another flu.... Average age of deaths 81 yrs old. Its a nasty way to go...but so is pneumonia....cancer.. emphysema.....it kills less than the flu...so why has the world all but shut down to protect humanity?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by deathcruzer

Thats the point ...it is another flu.... Average age of deaths 81 yrs old. Its a nasty way to go...but so is pneumonia....cancer.. emphysema.....it kills less than the flu...so why has the world all but shut down to protect humanity?

'it kills less than the flu' ... where are you getting this guff?

Everything you've asked has been explained numerous times.
https://www.bbc.com/news/coronavirus
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lu/3378208001/

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by deathcruzer

Thats the point ...it is another flu.... Average age of deaths 81 yrs old. Its a nasty way to go...but so is pneumonia....cancer.. emphysema.....it kills less than the flu...so why has the world all but shut down to protect humanity?

So the Governments buddies can get 12 billion pounds for setting up a so called test and trace when there's a perfectly good NHS system at local levels..
Just one example.. Gotta make a penny or two boy.. Gotta make a penny or two..
Death is no biggie.. its how one gets there totally sucks.

[Mike OReilly]

Do we really have to keep answering the same questions, over and over and over...? deathcruzer, are you really incapable of reading back a couple of pages? Vaccines protect the individual, but their main benefit comes in the way they protect the herd. This only happens with mass vaccination.

It's not rocket science. It's not hard to understand. If you choose to remain part of the problem, then the rest of us can choose to mitigate your risk to us. Freedom cuts both ways. You have it, as do the rest of us.

[deathcruzer]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

'it kills less than the flu' ... where are you getting this guff?

Everything you've asked has been explained numerous times.
https://www.bbc.com/news/coronavirus
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lu/3378208001/

The figures are vastly overinflated. I have people in the NHS who have told me as much..they don't want to stand up and say anything because that puts their jobs at risk.
There is a massive government backlash aimed at anyone contradicting the official narrative. So my information is ...how do you say...from the horses mouth. That is why I don't believe this. But you go ahead,...have the poison...I wont.

[deathcruzer]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Do we really have to keep answering the same questions, over and over and over...? deathcruzer, are you really incapable of reading back a couple of pages? Vaccines protect the individual, but their main benefit comes in the way they protect the herd. This only happens with mass vaccination.

It's not rocket science. It's not hard to understand. If you choose to remain part of the problem, then the rest of us can choose to mitigate your risk to us. Freedom cuts both ways. You have it, as do the rest of us.

The problem appears to be that too many people believe the false and misleading information coming out of the BBC and government. But you go ahead...I wont. You are welcome to mine.

[GordMay]

COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths ÷ number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%).
80+ years old: 14.8% (the risk of dying if infected with COVID-19)
70-79 years old: 8.0%
60-69 years old: 3.6%
50-59 years old: 1.3%
Under 50 years old: fractional % per each grouping

➥ https://www.worldometers.info/corona...-demographics/

“Distribution of coronavirus (COVID-19) cases in Canada as of December 17, 2020, by age group”
As of December 17, 2020, adults between the ages of 20 and 29 accounted for the highest percentage of all COVID-19 cases in Canada, at 18.6 percent of cases.
➥ https://www.statista.com/statistics/...bution-canada/

“Demographic perspectives on the mortality of COVID-19 and other epidemics” ~ by Joshua R. Goldstein and Ronald D. Lee
➥ https://www.pnas.org/content/117/36/22035

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by deathcruzer

The problem appears to be that too many people believe the false and misleading information coming out of the BBC and government. But you go ahead...I wont. You are welcome to mine.

No. The problem is you are relying on fringe, non-credible sources for your conspiracy theory. Get out of your silo and read some reputable sources.

But as has been said, over and over and over, no one is compelling you to take the vaccine. You have the freedom to choose. Just as the rest of us have the freedom not to be put at risk by your choice.

Choices have consequences and freedom cuts both ways.


P.S. I guess it's too obvious a statement to point out your fake name is well chosen.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by deathcruzer

The figures are vastly overinflated. I have people in the NHS who have told me as much..they don't want to stand up and say anything because that puts their jobs at risk.
There is a massive government backlash aimed at anyone contradicting the official narrative. So my information is ...how do you say...from the horses mouth. That is why I don't believe this. But you go ahead,...have the poison...I wont.

Obviously I didn't hear what you did from your contact at NHS. In your deck shoes, the number I would most pay attention to is hospital occupancy. Regardless of what one thinks of COVID itself, if hospitals get overwhelmed, people will suffer and die from COVID and other normally treatable stuff that now can't be treated for lack of capacity. Case count has to be managed to maintain functioning healthcare systems. Same situation here in the colonies.

I have about zero fear of vaccines. If you have concerns, wait, watch, ask a doctor.

[GordMay]

Would Albert Bourla’s (Pfizer CEO) statement be more believable, if it was framed as a cynical public relations ploy, rather than a principled position.
Ie: Maybe, he, first, claimed* to have rejected “cutting the line” to APPEAR principled, but when that may have backfired, reconsidered taking the vaccine early, to instill confidence.
*Perhaps his claim to not have taken the vaccine, was actually the big lie. Maybe he took it, but didn’t want to seem arrogantly exerting his privilege, by cutting the line.

The possibilities are nearly endless.