U.S. to close..

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

No where have I said what you attributed to me. You can play whatever delusional games you want with your own opinions, but don't lie about what I said.

Do I need to pin you down again?

Is all the evidence in?

Yes or no.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Do I need to pin you down again?

Is all the evidence in?

Yes or no.

A frank exchange of ideas is considerably more interesting than semantic squabbles. Closer to the forum's rules too, I believe.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Do I need to pin you down again?

Is all the evidence in?

Yes or no.

As as we know, yes.


Like I said, you are using the possibility fallacy to play some silly game. I normally wouldn't even play with you, but you've claimed I said something I did not. Stop.

[Thumbs Up]

Pretty easy to look back and see who said what but if you are going to bet about you need to state the currency this time to avoid the loony confusion.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Do I need to pin you down again?

Is all the evidence in?

Yes or no.

this is just semantics, we all know the timescales , the results will be certified by december 8 , the electoral college will meet mid Dec and cast their votes

There is no evidence that the delegates to the college will not follow the popular vote.

There is no material evidence to suggest voter fraud occurred on a level to make any difference and this is the criteria used by courts to allow any action , courts being very slow to interfere in the democratic process.

The current evidence and the most compelling ones are " in " the votes are cast and the legal challenges are falling away one by one, Trumps including Biden in the Presidents Daily Brief is part of the acceptance process by the President that a transition will occur

[Thumbs Up]

Maybe betting could be part of the CF online platform. We could invent our own CF bucks, could be the next bitcoin. Ante up!

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

As as we know, yes.


Like I said, you are using the possibility fallacy to play some silly game. I normally wouldn't even play with you, but you've claimed I said something I did not. Stop.

Not enough in you to look back at what you said and own it?

Very disappointed in you.

[Wotname]

The past couple of pages of this thread has proved to me the premise of this thread - U.S. [is] too close [to the rest of us].

[El Pinguino]

What it has shown me is how polarised the US is...... more like most south american republics than any western democracy... ie EU Au Ca NZ ... not sure about UK....

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

What it has shown me is how polarised the US is...... more like most south american republics than any western democracy... ie EU Au Ca NZ ... not sure about UK....

I suggest this isn't representative of everyday life in the US to be sure, but, I highly encourage non-US folks to see this kind of thing coming to their shores if they are not careful.

Underrepresented here is the eroded-nature status quo of the US's infrastructure coupled with pre-Covid uncertainty about the economy in general, perceived working harder to get less.

As such, I'd suggest that it's underlying economic issues that are substantially responsible for the polarization. People normally can't be bothered to get polarized when things are going well economically...a truism around the world. And when things go bad economically, you either get the best of times, or the worst of times...

[goboatingnow]

As such, I'd suggest that it's underlying economic issues that are substantially responsible for the polarization. People normally can't be bothered to get polarized when things are going well economically...a truism around the world. And when things go bad economically, you either get the best of times, or the worst of times..

Technology and globalisation have created a situation that the skilled labouring ( in western countries ) class is now finding its skills are largely redundant , steel workers, metal forming, etc , in fact the skill redundancy is moving up into the lower middle classes . These industries are now all moved to India , china etc , where the availability of cheap skilled labour suits these industries ( for the moment)

This process has been going on for teh last 20 years , leaving a group of people in their 50s disgruntled. along comes the 2009-2012 financial crisis which shakes their foundations even further as its attacks asset owning classes , and in the main property holders which these people often are.

IN this void rides the alt-right , suggesting that globalisation can be reversed ( it cant ) and that somehow immigrants , Mexicans , and " others" are all the cause of these peoples misfortunes

On top of that you have more sinister elements suggesting that the " white man" is becoming a minority in his own country.

These groupings see " others " getting benefits that they feel are rightfully theirs or they are fed the line that that is the case anyway etc

into this maelstrom rides a man, that simply decides to " promise " solutions even though their is no evidence the coal can be extracted from the ground in Virginia or Kentucky competitively or that US steel can be made competitively etc .

But angry and depressed people grab onto " easy " solutions , people wants to accept there is an easy solution or that their skills are really redundant etc

On top of this you have the corrosive effect of influencers and the amplification of social media creating an echo chamber effect , largely these people are not accesing main stream media any more, they are digesting largely second hand news from social media sources

The outcome is voting patterns supporting these " easy " solutions and the inevitable chaos that follows as it becomes obvious that there are no " easy" solutions.

The really sad thing is these peoples have been lied to, they are being offered fools gold , like the promises made by Brexiteers , which are based soley on conjecture, equally these peoples are being led down a garden path to disappointment

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

A case is a positive test. The test is admittedly highly inaccurate above ct thresholds of 35. The virus has never been properly isolated (not proven to exist). The vaccine cartel known as Big Pharma is dominated by corporations that are convicted felons which have been repeatedly fined billions of dollars for falsifying research and unethical practices. The WHO and CDC are arms of Big Pharma. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on medical procedures to prolong the life of well insured people only. Medical error has been implicated as the third leading cause of death in the US and Canada. COVID is a false flag attack, a means to an end. An end being currently defined by agendas set by powerful think tank organizations such as the WEF, CFR, and Rockefellers who control the press, invented PR, and used propaganda to set up a controlled society that keeps wealth in the hands of a few. Why do they want to inject the world's population with an untested DNA altering shot? Trans humanism is also in those agendas. This is not conspiracy. Too enamored by your illusions of mental superiority because of your Rockefeller corporation education to look this stuff up? Can't find any good sources behind the veil of our co-opted media? Look harder. "A vaccine is the only thing that will save us". That's what you guys are parroting. How about a healthy immune system? "Science is going to save the world!" I'm not falling for that line. But go ahead and do as you were taught, OBEY.

How about giving us the source for all of this? And, while you are at it, what are your five favourite news sources? Your favourite internet news source?

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

...The really sad thing is these peoples have been lied to, they are being offered fools gold , like the promises made by Brexiteers , which are based soley on conjecture, equally these peoples are being led down a garden path to disappointment

Good post. Indeed world is getting flatter than flat. Shipping containers really picking up 50 years ago playing a large role...

After the sadness consider the wonder. The wonder that this pattern has gone on repetitively all over the world for thousands of years yet, we like them, many of whom knew of the pattern too, also thought it couldn't happen to them.

Was watching a Dutch naval history program the other day, describing the 1600s wars with England. Funny how the narrator described the feeling of merchants/business back then....that trade effectively was all saturated. Point being, back then, withstanding many fewer people on Earth, to achieve success in the marketplace you had to literally sink the other guy's supply chain. And of course, many early American settlers started piling in to the US same timeframe (or otherwise away from Europe). World was flat in 1620 Northweatern Europe.

Otherwise up-thread mention of 1984...where some people see 1984 as coming true. I suggest always recalling that we're always living in someone else's 1984. As best I can surmise, the best last version of the book was written >2300 years ago, warning of a future lead by double-speakers who had all the control. In other words, if we reach 1984, it's only after leaving 300BC (or something like that).

[contrail]

I think there is something else in play. Through most of history, countries and other entities have been led by "strongmen" and other authoritarians. Other than the ancient Greeks, democracy is a recent concept, and our Founders rightly predicted that Democracy would always be under threat. In a way, it's not the natural path for humanity. That's why they created all the checks and balances, and, notwithstanding a World War or two, a Cold War, and other crises, our democracy has survived in the US. But, if most of history has been dominated by those strongmen, might it not be that most people actually prefer that? The trade of security (if an illusion, in some cases) for freedom? I mean, most of those countries have not existed in freedom loving turmoil and revolution! Many have been quite peaceful and productive and authoritarian. I used to wonder how Hitler gained power, was voted into office, even, more or less. Well, he promised some sort of solution to perceived German problems, fears, and nationalism, and the next thing you know, lots of people, including plenty that would have previously been regarded as "good" basically gave him their freedom. I think we are seeing much the same, here. For all is moral, ethical, political and leadership failures, he has always had at least 40% of the country behind HIM. Not just Republican or Conservative values. HIM! Those who deplored him scramble to find the reason for his "cult", for that is what it is. I am wondering if we are just looking at the fact that a large number of any population, anywhere, and at any time, simply prefer to have a "dear leader" solve their problems, rather than the freedom to vote for it, themselves. And what has happened, is that it has become socially acceptable to be public about it, where in the past it would not have been. I watched an interview of a former "Proud Boy", and he said that most of those who joined did so with minimal political reasoning, but just wanted to be part of a group, a gang, and fight. And, they gravitated to a leader who made that OK. Scary thought, and I hope I am wrong, but I think it may be simpler than we think or wish...those of us who actually value provable news, science, morality, and democracy.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by contrail

I think there is something else in play...
... I used to wonder how Hitler gained power, was voted into office, even, more or less. Well, he promised some sort of solution to perceived German problems, fears, and nationalism, and the next thing you know, lots of people, including plenty that would have previously been regarded as "good" basically gave him their freedom...

Indeed.
We’re in trouble when we begin to believe in our own superior ‘exceptionalism’, and then discover an enemy, or two (inside or outside), to blame for our perceived problems.