They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

There are vaccine hesitant people all over the world, but unfortunately in most countries there is no first amendment right, that’s the freedom of speech one OWLY. You should also note that 10% of the world has an IQ of under a 75, so technically mentally disabled, that’s a protected class so be careful when you use the S word.
I caught COVID IN 12/19 it took me 2 months to shake with prednisone and amoxicillin as well as my asthma meds. I have been Vaccinated 2x and had a booster this fall. I caught COVID again in the beginning of Jan. My fathers died of COVID 7/2/2020 and my mother 86 was at deaths door 2 weeks ago.
My point? The “vaccines” are leaky and the “science” behind the vaccines is now calling it a endemic not a pandemic, so the virus will be everywhere eventually, regardless of the jabs reguardless of how smart or ignorant any one individual is, and reguardless of mandates and lockdowns….sadly herd immunity is something most left leaning intellectuals believe to be a bad thing. Most likely there will be viruses on this planet long after we are, regardless of our intelligence, real or perceived.
AND right now you show that you live nowhere and don’t have a boat so what are you doing hear? By all indications you could be a basement blogger or a COWARD TROLL.

Nothing about your post is about sailing.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

Most countries have freedom of speech so the below diatribe starts with nonsense then gets worse. Your "points" are vacuous and do a disservice to everyone. Simple things to note: 1. Most people in hospital and dying of COVID are unvaccinated. 2. You apparently misunderstand "herd immunity" which is only used by virologists and immunologists in relation to vaccine programs AND as far as I can determine, has nothing to do with "left-leaning intellectuals". 3. Calling the base poster a COWARD TROLL is utterly beyond the pale and undeserved. 4. His post discussed south Pacific islands where I am headed soon from Panama and that qualifies his post as something to do with sailing. Oh and by the way 5. There will be a million dead in the USA alone soon of COVID.

1. you are not the OP
2. You can not silence my opinion
3. I did not call him a Coward Troll
4. Nothing in the OPs post is about sailing
5. I don’t think you understand how “herd immunity” works regardless of who uses the term
6. You should go to the South Pacific, but please please bring masks and where them, and your Vax card,and have a good time, I’ve crushed to 5 countries this past year and respected every letter of protocol

Cheers Ray

Perhaps if you critique others writings you should appraise your own as well.
Remember, spelling, punctuation and grammar count.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by seto_beril

All great points, but:
- I know people who missed a week of work after every shot
- The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting or transmitting the virus. I can say with 100% certainty that I haven't given covid to anyone. And that's something that someone who is vaccinated and asymptomatic can't say.
- The vaccine also has it's own set of risks. I know people who got all sorts of issues after getting the shot. Some brands have been pulled in countries due to myocarditis risks.

My point is really that decision to get the vax is personal and everyone has a different situation. Look, I have every other vaccine, and I'll continue to get them, but to doggedly insist that a healthy 30 year old who has a great diet, gets plenty of exercise and is covid recovered get vaccinated makes no sense to me. And to call everyone who didn't get it stupid like the OP did is perhaps not the best choice.

The risks around covid (especially omnicron) are pretty small vs other issues: diabetes, obesity, heart disease. I think its nuts were spending so much time talking about covid when all these other preventable diseases are killing many many more people. If we spent nearly as much time focusing on our overall health as we did infighting, pointing fingers and name calling around covid we'd all be in a much better place.

I think you are wrong on so many counts.

If you take a week off work for a sore arm, you are playing the system.

I have avoided getting covid in my latter 70's (where I get a new co-morbidity every year) by wearing a mask indoors and getting 3 jabs. I can also say with even more than your 100% certainty that I have not infected anyone else.

I don't use language like "I know people who" or "I know some people who".

I turn to more useful information like https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

Getting a vaccination is even more a no-brainer than not smoking.

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I think you are wrong on so many counts.

I have avoided getting covid in my latter 70's (where I get a new co-morbidity every year) by wearing a mask indoors and getting 3 jabs. I can also say with even more than your 100% certainty that I have not infected anyone else.

I turn to more useful information like https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

Getting a vaccination is even more a no-brainer than not smoking.

Well, I am in my 70's , in the last two years I have hardly ever worn a mask, (I think I have worn one maybe six times when visiting a Dr office and they demand it), no jabs, and I can say with 1000% certainty that I have not infected anyone.

Ok, here is some useful info that can easily be vereified.

Sweden’s Umeå University study found after six months vaccinated people have negative efficacy (more susceptible to Covid infection than unvaccinated). Study also found multiple, frequent vaccine boosters are required to maintain any durability once a person becomes vaccinated with either mRNA or DNA vaccine.

Syracuse University reports 93 percent of campus Covid transmission between fully vaccinated individuals. (Daily Orange SU Newspaper)

Irish report stated: “54% of Covid-19 hospitalized patients were fully vaccinated, 44% were partially vaccinated.” (Irish Times)

“Seeing a dramatic surge in new Covid cases. Israel …fully vaccinated a majority of its citizens against Covid-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates.” “Doctors say half of Israel's seriously ill patients who are currently hospitalized were fully vaccinated at least five months ago.” (NPR)


On the brighter side, our natural “Covid immunity” is steadily growing 239+ million worldwide and 40+ million in the USA have fully recovered from Covid-19 infection. “Herd immunity will require both natural antibody immunity and vaccine protections.” (NIH)

Of note: The best recovery rate worldwide, India reports 34.6 million infections and 34 million recoveries from Covid. In India only 27 percent of population is fully vaccinated. (India Times)

As for getting a vaccination being a no brainer, that is only YOUR opinion, and I might add a very foolish one. Here is some more data for you:

[sv_pelagia]

Someone clearly needs a little more education. Let's see: math, statistics, epidemiology....

Happily, they won't be crossing the border anytime soon....

[Sail Away 3]

So what this started out as was supposed to be a discussion on remote island 🏝 nations that attempted to isolate and quarantine their way out of a rampaging global disease sweeping across the planet that they didn't have the resources and medical and money to protect themselves from. They are now dealing with the world's issues bearing down and threatening to destroy their world. Now it is a long winded debate about whether 15 minutes to get vaccinated to protect your health is a waste of valuable time when the hours spent reading and listening to biased news from unprofessional sources is not a waste???
In raw numbers 300+ million people in the United States, almost 1 million people dead from complications with COVID-19. One in 300 dead with or from COVID-19. If most of the dieing are unvaccinated I'll choose to be in the survival group. Stop trying to talk and convince people not to get vaccinated, encouraging will get us back to a normal sooner. If you don't want to get vaccinated don't... stop trying to coerce, convince, badger others into your world. If other societies make rules to protect themselves and you don't agree, then stay away. You are the problem not the solution.

[captmikem]

Maybe you should stop trying to convince people to take an experimental drug..

Lets put this into perspective, using death probability statistics from America…

[2.4% COVID Risk Age 80+]
1.1% chance of dying by suicide
1% chance of dying of an opioid overdose
0.9% chance of tripping over and dying
0.9% chance of dying in a motor vehicle crash

[0.6% COVID Risk Age 70-79]
0.3% chance of dying in a gun-crime shooting

[0.07% COVID Risk Age 50-59]
0.06% chance of dying in a fire
0.04% chance of choking to death

[0.02% COVID Risk Age 40-49]
0.01% chance of dying of sunstroke
0.01% chance of dying in an accidental gun discharge

[0.007% COVID Risk Age 30-49]
0.007% chance of dying due to electrocution, radiation, extreme
temperatures, and pressure

[0.002% COVID Risk Age 20-29]
0.001% chance of dying in a cataclysmic storm
0.001% chance of being mauled to death by a dog
0.001% chance of being stung to death by wasps and bees

[0.0005% COVID Risk Age 10-19]
0.0007% chance of being killed by lightning

[0.0001% COVID Risk Age 5-9]

and, let us have a look in the UK.

[JPA Cate]

In spite owly's obvious sympathy with the island nations, I have to say I'm a bit surprised no one who has posted in this thread for pages, seems to want to consider how we, the wealthier of the worlds' peoples, might help them.

Some people here are playing some very worn out themes, and I am thinking wow! compassion needs to develop, or at least practicality....


Ann

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by rsvmille

Government interventions including things such as lockdowns happened.

The numbers are in from John Hopkins and others showing the unprecedented measures of throwing out the evidence-based pandemic response playbook to rush after the CCP model miserably failed.

Millions of cancer screenings missed
Seriously ill people unable to go to hospital or even doctors
Drug and opiate related deaths skyrocketed
Depression and suicides skyrocketed
Starvation skyrocketed worldwide (120 million or something according to the UN estimate?)

All for nothing against the virus but:
Destroyed economy
Small business crushed
Largest wealth transfer from the many to the few in human history
Scarred childhoods
Much of the population depressed or living with anxiety
Totalitarian controls enacted and accepted that the Warsaw bloc couldn't have imagined possible

Hospitals have been completely overwhelmed. Doing things to try to slow the rate of patients coming in is not “nothing” unless you want healthcare workers to quit en masse because they’re all having nervous breakdowns. Then none of us would be able to get any care for anything.

(Btw, my anxiety is from people who think it’s ‘just like the flu’ so it’s no big deal if I get it so refuse to take precautions, and my depression is from the number of people who think it’s okay to tell me that due to a condition I was born with it’s fine if *I* can never leave the house again as long as they aren’t inconvenienced by wearing a mask to go grocery shopping. I really feel the love.)

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

In spite owly's obvious sympathy with the island nations, I have to say I'm a bit surprised no one who has posted in this thread for pages, seems to want to consider how we, the wealthier of the worlds' peoples, might help them.

Some people here are playing some very worn out themes, and I am thinking wow! compassion needs to develop, or at least practicality....


Ann

Ann, wouldn't it be great if those that peddled their beliefs to these remote island nations promoted the positive SCIENCE based information over the popularist hearsay that is too often peddled at the smaller remote nations detriment.

[Island Time O25]

It is a sad day when a segment of the population - cruisers and wannabee cruisers - long known for itt love of freedoms - freedom from govt intrusion into their lives, freedom to make risky and and potentially dangerous choices, freedom to be the masters of their own lives and destinies, etc. - all of a sudden, under the intense and incessant pressure from the govt and compliant media turn their worldview upside down and become shrill advocates for govt mandates, bully tactics, dictatorial "emergency measures" lasting years and perhaps forever. All in the name of safety.

I sincerely hope that from now on they will practice what their preach - stay home, sell their vessels (after all sailing/boating are POTENTIALLY very dangerous activities and if you need to be rescued that will impose on the society in general and govt rescue services in particular and we cant have that, can we?) and alleviate the economic pressures for the rest of us by emptying marinas and boatyards of your vessels.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by PirateFoxy

Hospitals have been completely overwhelmed. Doing things to try to slow the rate of patients coming in is not “nothing” unless you want healthcare workers to quit en masse because they’re all having nervous breakdowns. Then none of us would be able to get any care for anything.

(Btw, my anxiety is from people who think it’s ‘just like the flu’ so it’s no big deal if I get it so refuse to take precautions, and my depression is from the number of people who think it’s okay to tell me that due to a condition I was born with it’s fine if *I* can never leave the house again as long as they aren’t inconvenienced by wearing a mask to go grocery shopping. I really feel the love.)

If I have to chose between you staying home forever (voluntarily bc you realize your own personal the risks and want to mitigate them) and my staying home by govt force - guess which I and millions of like minded freedom loving people will chose?

Yeah, stay home if your medical condition requires it but also stay out of my life as well. I will decide the levels of my own risks for myself, thank you very much.

[kiwin]

Guess how many intensive care beds there are among Pacific Islands?

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by kiwin

Guess how many intensive care beds there are among Pacific Islands?

Close to zero?

Yet unfortunately that never stopped them from overeating, smoking and drinking themselves to some of the shortest life expectancies on Earth. Long before this pandemic.

It amazes me how complacent most humans are. Here we are, 2+ years since this pandemic started and we know for a fact what the contributing factors to the severity of cases are, yet not a MEANINGFUL peep from so called authorities, political, medical, financial, etc. regarding mitigation or better prevention of those very factors.

Even those island nations would rather blame outsiders then look into their own lifestyle choices which make them so vulnerable to this virus. Look at their obesity and life expectancy statitstics and that is all we need to know about what will happen there. Irrespective of lock downs, masks and distancing measures.

On the other hand, and hopefully, the vitamin D from being outside so much most of the year will mitigate their co-morbidity factors.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

If I have to chose between you staying home forever (voluntarily bc you realize your own personal the risks and want to mitigate them) and my staying home by govt force - guess which I and millions of like minded freedom loving people will chose?

Yeah, stay home if your medical condition requires it but also stay out of my life as well. I will decide the levels of my own risks for myself, thank you very much.

It’s hardly voluntary if my choice is stay home or become seriously ill and possibly dead. Would you call it voluntary if someone did something at gun point?

Like I said, the depressing part is how many people there are like you who can’t be bothered with even the smallest thing to help others, and who write off anyone who isn’t in perfect health/the right age/the right area of the world for good care as an acceptable price to pay for you being able to do whatever frivolous activity you’ve decided is the Most Important Thing Ever.

Of course, this mindset is probably not going to work out so well for you in the long run, as for one, Covid DOES harm people in perfect health/young/in the right area of the world, so people aren’t as safe as they think they are, and for two, there’s a huge huge number of people you are happily consigning to the grave who are active in keeping things working - healthcare workers, food production, transport of goods, etc. etc. Hope you’re ready to Mad Max it on your boat when the healthcare system collapses and the supply chain goes belly up.

[donradcliffe]

If you study the history of the Pacific Islands, their first exposure to the outside world resulted in the deaths of 90% of their populations because they had no natural immunity to diseases like measles. Having learned the hard way that letting the white man in was costly, I can understand why they are wary of opening up to visiting yachts again.

I have heard that when Captain Cook arrived in Australia, the aboriginals were seen on the shore jumping up and down and waving at them. They were shouting something like "waragh" which evidently means "go away".

If you visit the islands, they do not go around "blaming" anyone. They accept death as a natural part of life.