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Old 11-02-2022, 00:08   #46
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

Why is it that people constantly want to push their own problems on others? And yes, it is still voluntary if one has to stay home bc of one's medical issues. That's called real life.

May be I need to get across a busy highway? But my lack of athletic sprinter skills prevents me from doing that by running across unscathed. So I'm stuck on the other side so to speak. Must I demand that the govt now stop traffic for me or rather I need to find a better way to cross?
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Old 11-02-2022, 00:18   #47
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
Why is it that people constantly want to push their own problems on others? And yes, it is still voluntary if one has to stay home bc of one's medical issues. That's called real life.

May be I need to get across a busy highway? But my lack of athletic sprinter skills prevents me from doing that by running across unscathed. So I'm stuck on the other side so to speak. Must I demand that the govt now stop traffic for me or rather I need to find a better way to cross?

Methinks you somehow miss the point.
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Old 11-02-2022, 04:28   #48
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Originally Posted by captmikem View Post
... Ok, here is some useful info that can easily be vereified.
Sweden’s Umeå University study found after six months vaccinated people have negative efficacy (more susceptible to Covid infection than unvaccinated). Study also found multiple, frequent vaccine boosters are required to maintain any durability once a person becomes vaccinated with either mRNA or DNA vaccine...
If you mean this [1] Swedish [Umeå] study, you couldn’t be more wrong!
If you mean some other study, please cite.

Nationwide study shows link between COVID vaccination and reduced household transmission

“The results strongly suggest that vaccination is important not only for individual protection, but also for reducing transmission, especially within families, which is a high-risk environment for transmission,”
says Peter Nordström, professor of geriatric medicine at Umeå University.

There is a vast body of research showing that vaccines strongly reduce the risk of COVID-19. However, less is known about the influence of vaccination on transmission of the virus in high-risk environments, such as within families. This is what researchers at Umeå University aimed to investigate in a new study.

"... Vaccination is a key strategy for decreasing the transmission of the virus within families..."


[1] “Association Between Risk of COVID-19 Infection in Nonimmune Individuals and COVID-19 Immunity in Their Family Members”~ by Peter Nordström, Marcel Ballin, Anna Nordström
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...tm_term=101121
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Old 11-02-2022, 04:45   #49
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

Sadly odd that the western world is suddenly up in arms about COVID in the South Pacific, yet has long ignored historically significant diseases.

Malaria, Dengue, and Filariasis will again kill more Pacific Islanders than COVID. Beyond that, a near-total lack of proper healthcare facilities ensures that many die of common diseases that are readily treatable in NZ and AUS.

But as typical, COVID will be bantered about for pages, and nobody will donate a dime to the fight against long-standing Pacific diseases.
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Old 11-02-2022, 04:48   #50
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

CDC released the test data they used on their basis for "approving" (i.e. no longer distributing under Emergency Use Act) the Pfizer vaccination showing:

(Highly probable) - vaccination will reduce the risk of hospitalization or serious illness if a person becomes infected with COVID

(Medium probability i.e. "maybe") vaccination will prevent a person from becoming infected with COVID

(Very Low probability) Vaccination will prevent a person from being contagious and spreading the virus to others if he has the COVID virus.

This info was on their site, then it wasn't, then it was put it back up again after people complained.
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Old 11-02-2022, 04:56   #51
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Originally Posted by Tetepare View Post
Sadly odd that the western world is suddenly up in arms about COVID in the South Pacific, yet has long ignored historically significant diseases.

Malaria, Dengue, and Filariasis will again kill more Pacific Islanders than COVID. Beyond that, a near-total lack of proper healthcare facilities ensures that many die of common diseases that are readily treatable in NZ and AUS.

But as typical, COVID will be bantered about for pages, and nobody will donate a dime to the fight against long-standing Pacific diseases.
Combatting communicable diseases in the Pacific ~ WHO
Pacific island governments are strengthening their health systems to combat old diseases such as malaria, tuberculosis, leprosy and parasitic diseases, as well as more recent infectious diseases such as HIV, Zika virus and multidrug-resistant tuberculosis. They are also working to prevent the re-emergence of diseases targeted for elimination, such as measles and polio.
WHO has supported achievement of elimination of lymphatic filariasis as a public health problem in Cook Islands, Niue, Palau, the Republic of Marshall Islands, Tonga, Vanuatu, Kiribati and Wallis and Futuna.
To date 9 Pacific countries and areas have achieved the 2020 hepatitis B elimination goal of less than 1% prevalence in children at least 5 years old.
All Pacific island countries and areas have maintained polio-free status since 2000.
https://www.who.int/westernpacific/a...in-the-pacific

Addressing noncommunicable diseases in the Pacific islands ~ WHO
Noncommunicable diseases (NCDs) including cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, cancer, and chronic respiratory diseases, represent the single largest cause of premature mortality in the Pacific Islands. The rise of NCDs in the Pacific – as elsewhere – has been driven primarily by four major risk factors: tobacco use, unhealthy diets, physical inactivity, and the harmful use of alcohol.
All Pacific Island countries are parties to the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control.
More than two thirds of Pacific Island countries have a current active NCD strategic plan with national targets.
12 Pacific Islands countries are using mhGAP to reduce service provision gaps for mental health at primary health care level.
https://www.who.int/westernpacific/a...in-the-pacific
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Old 11-02-2022, 08:10   #52
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Combatting communicable diseases in the Pacific ~ WHO
Pacific island governments are strengthening their health systems to combat old diseases such as malaria, tuberculosis, leprosy and parasitic diseases, as well as more recent infectious diseases such as HIV, Zika virus and multidrug-resistant tuberculosis. They are also working to prevent the re-emergence of diseases targeted for elimination, such as measles and polio.
WHO has supported achievement of elimination of lymphatic filariasis as a public health problem in Cook Islands, Niue, Palau, the Republic of Marshall Islands, Tonga, Vanuatu, Kiribati and Wallis and Futuna.
To date 9 Pacific countries and areas have achieved the 2020 hepatitis B elimination goal of less than 1% prevalence in children at least 5 years old.
All Pacific island countries and areas have maintained polio-free status since 2000.
https://www.who.int/westernpacific/a...in-the-pacific

Addressing noncommunicable diseases in the Pacific islands ~ WHO
Noncommunicable diseases (NCDs) including cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, cancer, and chronic respiratory diseases, represent the single largest cause of premature mortality in the Pacific Islands. The rise of NCDs in the Pacific – as elsewhere – has been driven primarily by four major risk factors: tobacco use, unhealthy diets, physical inactivity, and the harmful use of alcohol.
All Pacific Island countries are parties to the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control.
More than two thirds of Pacific Island countries have a current active NCD strategic plan with national targets.
12 Pacific Islands countries are using mhGAP to reduce service provision gaps for mental health at primary health care level.
https://www.who.int/westernpacific/a...in-the-pacific



We have reached the point where it seems that if we do not perceive a disease to pose a direct personal threat to us in some way, we simply do not care. As westerners, we can get inoculated or otherwise protected from many of the killer diseases found in other parts of the world. We are frustrated by our recreational sailing being limited by "unreasonable" laws that prevent us from bringing pestilence to these places. Infecting others with deadly pestilence seemingly is our God given right. Our recreational "rights" have been unfairly curtailed for such a trivial cause as saving lives!
With covid, access to vaccines in the west was a high priority......much higher than protecting people in so called "third world" countries. The result has been a pool of vulnerable people in which mutations could evolve and spread, bringing us Delta and Omicron. We are all in the same proverbial boat. If we want access to Oceania it behooves us to work toward protecting these people....... perhaps treating them with the same consideration we would friends and family.....They are in fact our equals as humans, not just conveniences for supplies and "local color" entertainment, etc.

Inadequate and overly expensive health care in the islands does not effect us... unless we are sick or injured....and then as often as not we benefit by the cheap (compared to here) health care. At worst we may have to fly out to Sydney or Honolulu for "real" health care.
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Old 11-02-2022, 08:37   #53
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Note that death is not the only thing Covid can do to you, and the numbers for post-Covid complications are looking unpleasantly high.



Thanks for pointing this out......... Heart, Liver, pancreas, lungs, brain.......



DEATH is the obvious dramatic outcome........... Disability spells the end of quality of life for most of us........... the end of "life worth living". The end of doing the things we love in the places we love.... The premature beginning of the downward spiral. That is non trivial......... at least to me! As an outdoorsman, adventurer, sailor, hunter, fisherman, backpacker, inventor, and other things..........Is life worth living if it consists of visiting doctors, taking pills, restricting activities....... being a walking talking vegetable???
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Old 11-02-2022, 08:42   #54
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

What owly said [#52].
None of us are ‘safe’, until all of us are ‘safe’.
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Old 11-02-2022, 08:43   #55
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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You do realize those numbers represent "With Covid", not Of Covid. If you are in an auto accident and die, and your body tests positive for covid etc you are now part of that statistic.

This is an absolute ******** trope that has been circulating around for a long time...
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Old 11-02-2022, 09:28   #56
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Sadly much of the vaccine resistance in the Pacific Islands is due to the sickness leaking out of the US. Facebook propaganda bought and paid for in the US is spread throughout the islands. There are many US funded evangelical Christian programs throughout the Pacific and some of those people are only too happy to spread vicious evil lies that have and will kill people.

Religion in many cases is a huge liability.... goofball evangelical preachers are telling their congregations NOT to get vaccinated, that God will protect them. Completely ignoring the fact that God HAS provided protection for them ... the vaccine. God gave man the ability to craft vaccines, and many other things. Pretending that somehow this is evil or that being vaccinated shows a lack of faith is beyond stupid. God works in many ways, and in my experience those ways seldom involve old time biblical miracles as seen in the New Testament. As a lifetime Christian........but NOT a member of any current organized religion, I have learned to recognize the "hand of God" in it's many forms (usually). When the solo sailor wakes up to see a freighter bearing down on him with nobody apparently on the bridge would be an example. I've had many instances where my life has been spared by a "wake up call". My favorite story took place many years ago hiking in the remote Rockies living in a cabin many miles from civilization.... In winter, a couple of inches of new snow.. solo, heading up a ridge toward a high vista near a nearby peak solo....The hair stood up on the back of my neck...... something I have learned NEVER to ignore....... I instantly knew a lion (cougar) was stalking me... I couldn't see or hear it, I never turned... I didn't need to. It all transpired in less than a minute. As I rounded a boulder blocking the view from behind, a few strides later, without any hesitation, I did the only thing I could do... being unarmed, I spun, and charged back down my tracks at a dead run, surprising the lion, who bolted off the trail and fled down slope..... Unexpected, shocking, she reacted as I instinctively knew she would. I could not see or hear the animal, and never looked back....how did I know I was being stalked? How did I know within mere seconds what to do? I saw the hand of God in that........ as in many other situations...... including the availability of covid vaccinations. Your mileage may vary.......but for me, the hand of God has touched me in many ways throughout my life, and saved me many times in various ways I have no idea why.............I give credit where credit is due (IMHO). You will NOT see me in a church service.... I don't see God there as a rule..... I see God in my life in a real and tangible way, and try to keep my eyes, ears, and heart open. The lion, may not have been hunting........she may just have been curious, but her tracks followed mine for a significant distance, and they are the only really dangerous aggressive predators in the Rockies. The only non-human animal I fear other than moose.

Covid may not get you........ It may not kill or disable you. Your odds are good numerically........but I'm not a gambler. I am reading some absolute BS posts here, based NOT on reality, often citing bogus "statistics" to support the anti vax case. There seldom has been cheaper insurance.
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Old 11-02-2022, 09:32   #57
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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We have reached the point where it seems that if we do not perceive a disease to pose a direct personal threat to us in some way, we simply do not care. ...
With covid, access to vaccines in the west was a high priority......much higher than protecting people in so called "third world" countries. The result has been a pool of vulnerable people in which mutations could evolve and spread, bringing us Delta and Omicron.

Excellent observations, thank you. In a mega-corporately dominated world, we can never go wrong following the money. Not supplying or licensing vaccines (developed largely with public funding, BTW) means that the Rx companies - who have already enjoyed incredible profits - can ensure an unending series of variants and profitable new vaccines.


If there ever was a case for social democracy, enforcement of vaccination, world unity and cooperation, emergency orders to license and manufacture vaccines (at fair cost, or less)...
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Old 11-02-2022, 19:57   #58
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Yes, the CDC does say that, but the same data says that your chances of dying in that age group if you are vaccinated + boosted is approaching zero. And if just vaccinated < 0.05/100k. If you want to espouse critical thinking then why not put all the facts out there instead of cherry-picking?

Attachment 252741
Attachment 252742
maybe look at the countries with the highest vaccination numbers : ALSO THE HIGHEST MORTALITY like isreal or iceland , Gibraltar
sure you don't read that in MSM
Also check out overall mortality in many countries and this is a crude way of checking (statistics!!!)it doesnot show higher number over the past 2 years
also of interest ( you can check the life insurance numbers that don't lie ) 40% increase in death in the younger generation probably most of them vaccinated
Hopefully the whole narrative will come unravelled and I hope that the guilty will find the Truth
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Old 11-02-2022, 21:58   #59
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Originally Posted by c.K. View Post
maybe look at the countries with the highest vaccination numbers : ALSO THE HIGHEST MORTALITY like isreal or iceland , Gibraltar
sure you don't read that in MSM
Also check out overall mortality in many countries and this is a crude way of checking (statistics!!!)it doesnot show higher number over the past 2 years
also of interest ( you can check the life insurance numbers that don't lie ) 40% increase in death in the younger generation probably most of them vaccinated
Hopefully the whole narrative will come unravelled and I hope that the guilty will find the Truth
In an ancient story book, or one of it's many rewrites perhaps.

Sad isn't it, all those public health professionals being so misled.
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Old 11-02-2022, 23:58   #60
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Methinks you somehow miss the point.
On purpose. Doesn’t want to admit to making choices that actively harm other people to avoid minor annoyances to himself.

But thinking that someone where ‘death’ is one of two options has a genuine and valid choice is just messed up. Think of all the other situations that can be applied to - crime victims, slaves, etc. etc. Anything bad is your fault because you could’ve chosen death instead!
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