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Old 10-02-2022, 14:56   #16
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

Note that death is not the only thing Covid can do to you, and the numbers for post-Covid complications are looking unpleasantly high.
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Old 10-02-2022, 15:02   #17
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Critical thinking requires that you did not have an answer in mind when you started.

All great points, but:
- I know people who missed a week of work after every shot
- The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting or transmitting the virus. I can say with 100% certainty that I haven't given covid to anyone. And that's something that someone who is vaccinated and asymptomatic can't say.
- The vaccine also has it's own set of risks. I know people who got all sorts of issues after getting the shot. Some brands have been pulled in countries due to myocarditis risks.

My point is really that decision to get the vax is personal and everyone has a different situation. Look, I have every other vaccine, and I'll continue to get them, but to doggedly insist that a healthy 30 year old who has a great diet, gets plenty of exercise and is covid recovered get vaccinated makes no sense to me. And to call everyone who didn't get it stupid like the OP did is perhaps not the best choice.

The risks around covid (especially omnicron) are pretty small vs other issues: diabetes, obesity, heart disease. I think its nuts were spending so much time talking about covid when all these other preventable diseases are killing many many more people. If we spent nearly as much time focusing on our overall health as we did infighting, pointing fingers and name calling around covid we'd all be in a much better place.
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Old 10-02-2022, 15:15   #18
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateFoxy View Post
Note that death is not the only thing Covid can do to you, and the numbers for post-Covid complications are looking unpleasantly high.
100% piratefoxy, both parents had rapid onset Dementia symptoms, confirmed by the RNs because of isolation protocols. For the middle aged and other demographics are reporting Fatigue, myocarditis, to name a few.

All making it very hard to sail around the pacific
Cheers
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Old 10-02-2022, 15:54   #19
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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100% piratefoxy, both parents had rapid onset Dementia symptoms, confirmed by the RNs because of isolation protocols. For the middle aged and other demographics are reporting Fatigue, myocarditis, to name a few.
It’s the numbers for post-Covid cardiovascular issues like stroke and heart attack that concern me since I already have a family history of heart issues. I’m being extremely cautious until they complete their studies on this aspect.

But I think people should be making informed choices in general, and the focus on reporting deaths and survival rate means people are not able to do that - the options are not dead or fine, they are dead, fine, or some degree of disability/long term issues. Anyone thinking “well, I’ll probably not die so it’s okay” should definitely be paying attention to what “not dead” might actually mean as we continue to figure it out.

(And realistically this is an area where we won’t have a totally accurate picture for some time, as we can’t collect the data until it’s actually been long enough since infection for it to be a long term issue - so for example we won’t know for sure about the long term possibilities with Omicron until enough people are ~1yr or more out from having Omicron. People can make guesses, but they are just guesses at this point.)

Anyway, as someone dealing with disabilities due to an autoimmune issue, I just want people to think about that aspect when assessing risk. It is very much not fun to have significant limits put on what you can do because your body has other ideas and simply will not cooperate at all. I don’t wish it on anyone.
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Old 10-02-2022, 16:43   #20
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Originally Posted by PirateFoxy View Post
It’s the numbers for post-Covid cardiovascular issues like stroke and heart attack that concern me since I already have a family history of heart issues. ... Anyway, as someone dealing with disabilities due to an autoimmune issue, I just want people to think about that aspect when assessing risk. ....
SARCASM FLAG (why don't we have one of those?).

Those are co-morbidities, so anything Covid-related for you doesn't count, if you were simply healthy then it wouldn't be a problem.

Not sarcasm, the unknown, but apparently present at some level, risk of long-term effects from some Covid infections concerns me far more than death. If I'm dead I'm dead, I can live with that. It's the potential for a lifetime of debilitation that concerns me, and we won't know what those numbers look like for a long time.

I shuddered when I heard about the Tongan eruption, they had largely evaded the virus, and you knew that "aid" following the eruption was going to put an end to that. If this does become endemic then it was inevitable, but having it come on the heels of something for which you have zero control really sucks. I suspect there will be many communities in the South Pacific (and elsewhere) that will be wary of strangers for a long time.
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Old 10-02-2022, 17:07   #21
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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SARCASM FLAG (why don't we have one of those?).

Those are co-morbidities, so anything Covid-related for you doesn't count, if you were simply healthy then it wouldn't be a problem.

Not sarcasm, the unknown, but apparently present at some level, risk of long-term effects from some Covid infections concerns me far more than death. If I'm dead I'm dead, I can live with that. It's the potential for a lifetime of debilitation that concerns me, and we won't know what those numbers look like for a long time.
Yes, that’s exactly it. I mean, I don’t want to die, but I also do not want to be any worse than I already am. And I don’t want other people to have to deal with the kinds of issues I deal with because of something preventable. I think I have a pretty good quality of life, mind you, but it would certainly be BETTER without the pain and joint problems and everything. (I don’t want ppl to think ‘omg, my life is over!’ if they get disabled - I just don’t know why you’d choose it, either, you know? Because your life will very likely change, stuff will be harder, etc. Why do that to yourself?)

I think it’s a real failure in messaging that the media on the whole has been extremely focused on deaths only when people with chronic illness and disabilities have from the very start been expressing concern about long term consequences. (Even without Covid itself causing issues, some of the techniques that need to be used in patients who have very severe Covid themselves have complications, so people were pointing that out even before we knew about long Covid, etc.)
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Old 10-02-2022, 17:55   #22
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

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Those are bogus numbers by any measure........ In a nearby county where I do have figures and which has a population of approximately 100K, there have been 506 deaths so far. In the US so far the death toll to Feb 2 was 906146.... from a population of a bit more than 331 million....... In case you are math challenged we are talking about a number approaching 1 out of 331 for the US. And one out of about 2000 locally.
You do realize those numbers represent "With Covid", not Of Covid. If you are in an auto accident and die, and your body tests positive for covid etc you are now part of that statistic.
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Old 10-02-2022, 17:58   #23
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

There have been almost 1 million excess deaths in the last two years in the US. In that time almost 1 in 300 Americans have died of Covid. Unless something else happened which killed a million people that I missed?
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Old 10-02-2022, 18:01   #24
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

That's over 330 9/11 attacks.
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Old 10-02-2022, 18:03   #25
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

It's like a 9/11 attack every other day for two years...
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Old 10-02-2022, 18:06   #26
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

Quote:
Originally Posted by seto_beril View Post
All great points, but:
- I know people who missed a week of work after every shot
- The vaccine doesn't stop you from getting or transmitting the virus. I can say with 100% certainty that I haven't given covid to anyone. And that's something that someone who is vaccinated and asymptomatic can't say.
- The vaccine also has it's own set of risks. I know people who got all sorts of issues after getting the shot. Some brands have been pulled in countries due to myocarditis risks.

My point is really that decision to get the vax is personal and everyone has a different situation. Look, I have every other vaccine, and I'll continue to get them, but to doggedly insist that a healthy 30 year old who has a great diet, gets plenty of exercise and is covid recovered get vaccinated makes no sense to me. And to call everyone who didn't get it stupid like the OP did is perhaps not the best choice.

The risks around covid (especially omnicron) are pretty small vs other issues: diabetes, obesity, heart disease. I think its nuts were spending so much time talking about covid when all these other preventable diseases are killing many many more people. If we spent nearly as much time focusing on our overall health as we did infighting, pointing fingers and name calling around covid we'd all be in a much better place.
Bingo!
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Old 10-02-2022, 18:13   #27
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

Government interventions including things such as lockdowns happened.

The numbers are in from John Hopkins and others showing the unprecedented measures of throwing out the evidence-based pandemic response playbook to rush after the CCP model miserably failed.

Millions of cancer screenings missed
Seriously ill people unable to go to hospital or even doctors
Drug and opiate related deaths skyrocketed
Depression and suicides skyrocketed
Starvation skyrocketed worldwide (120 million or something according to the UN estimate?)

All for nothing against the virus but:
Destroyed economy
Small business crushed
Largest wealth transfer from the many to the few in human history
Scarred childhoods
Much of the population depressed or living with anxiety
Totalitarian controls enacted and accepted that the Warsaw bloc couldn't have imagined possible
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Old 10-02-2022, 20:22   #28
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

The hospitals are clogged with the epidemic of the un-vaccinated - more infections, more hospitalizations, more deaths. Below a 3-month snapshot of California infections, hospitalizations, and death among the unvaxd, the partially vax'd, and the boosted.

The only responsible thing to do for yourself, the ones you love, your community, your nation, your planet is so simple - just get fully vax'd and boosted.


Res ipsa loquitur :

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Name:	Covid Deatns.jpg
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ID:	252766
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Old 10-02-2022, 20:24   #29
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

Quote:
Originally Posted by PineyWoodsPete View Post
The hospitals are clogged with the epidemic of the un-vaccinated - more infections, more hospitalizations, more deaths. Below a 3-month snapshot of California infections, hospitalizations, and death among the unvaxd, the partially vax'd, and the boosted.

The only responsible thing to do for yourself, the ones you love, your community, your nation, your planet is so simple - just get fully vax'd and boosted.


Res ipsa loquitur :

Attachment 252764

Attachment 252765

Attachment 252766
I did not know Government Paid Advertisements were on here.
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Old 10-02-2022, 20:48   #30
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Re: They Lived In a Pandemic Bubble Now Covid Has Arrived

The purpose of education, after the most basic grades, it to teach you how to reason your way through information, to separate fact from opinion, and even worse, carefully selected facts, biased presentations and logical errors. Our brains are designed more for fight-or-flight, basic relationships, and maybe language, but not so much for basic math, the reason trig gives so many an ice cream headache. But science requires a healthy detachment, and a good scientists is EQUALLY thrilled when he can prove his hypothesis was wrong. It at least suggests he is paying more attention to the data than what he wants to be true.



Covid is a moving target, and thus the one sure way to be wrong is to have one fixed answer. The right answers in the beginning, during delta, now, and 3 months from now are different. They are different in different situations. But whatever your personal situation, you remain a member of the human race.


I think we are all curious what the new normal will be. Some say it is here. Some think we are going back to the good old days. The reality, I believe, is most likely to be like the post 911 world; some things will go back to before, some won't, and it may change at any time.



  • Having a cough in public or in the office won't be cool ever again. You will be expected to wear a mask with cold or allergies, and not to will label you as rude, whether you see it or not.
  • Vaccination requirements will evolve. I won't guess where they will settle, but I'm sure Covid will remain on some lists, just as INS has a long list of other vaccines.
  • There will be growing social issues related to misinformation and disinformation on the internet and health care cost vs. coverage. We will need to develop better filters and reasoning. Some will grow with this change, many are not equipped to (and the difference has more to do with mindset than education or intelligence). The heath care problem I will leave for others.
  • Sailing doesn't need to change, except I'm pretty sure vaccination is a done deal for international travel. Like increased airport security, soon it will be come uniform and we will get used to it. Vaccinate or stay home. Quarantine requirements will become uniform, the few places that do that.
We will be inconvenienced (not much), and some people will still die (not as many). And whatever the "right answers are... they will keep changing.
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