New study of jabbed in the journal "Circulation"

[SV Siren]

These statistics are supported all over the country, I just posted one, from this past week. Besides the higher percentage of unvaccinated in the hospitals, who is paying all these ICU bills? I can't imagine private individuals getting a bill for this.

I am pretty sure that insurance companies will start adding, if they have not already, additional premiums for those who choose not to get a shot(s). Insurance companies run by their actuarial tables.

[onewadd]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Ah, the ad hominen attack. Perhaps you should get out more. When one makes an ad hominem attack it usually indicates that they have little of value to say.

There is a difference between an anti-vaxxer and one who is opposed to this shot. Anti-vaxxers are against vaccines in general. Most who are opposed to this shot argue that the shot is not needed and have concerns about its safety.

Many people, including a lot of doctors and scientists, have legitimate concerns about this mRNA shot. It is not a vaccine since it does not and was not designed to prevent the acquisition nor spread of the virus. It was however designed to mitigate the symptoms. For this reason, there may be value for those at risk to get it. For the general population there is little need since the risks are extremely low. The reality is that each person needs to decide for themselves whether the risks outweigh the touted benefits of the shot.

As a 69 year old male with pre diabetes, I have had Covid (I was tested and shown to have antibodies) and I fully agree with the above quote. For me it was short lived and very mild. I am anything but an "anti-vaxer", that said, except for a few close friends and family it makes no difference to me what anyone else thinks. I will offer a couple of thoughts that helped me decide to refuse the shot. First, as stated above, it is not a vaccine has we have thought about them until now and we have no long term studies (5 years or more) that all other vaccines have been tested and approved by. This "is" the long term study going on right now. Second, the vast majority of the population suffers little to no impact from covid especially those under 30 so I fail to understand why we would use them in mass for testing. Third, there are proven issues and problems (some resulting in death) and that gets no media attention which makes me wonder what we are not being told. Last, the fact that our current administration having said multiple times by multiple leaders and staff that "there would be no mandate" and we now have... guess what, a mandate. We have never (at least in my lifetime) seen this much effort in forcing compliance. What gives?? The last issue alone gives me huge concern especially since Covid has almost no impact on healthy people and literally none among our youth.
Let me close with this thought, all the push is on getting the vaccine. There are several proven treatments and we hear basically nothing about them. People that have been infected and recovered are more likely (testing proves as much as 35 times) to avoid reinfection plus from the mouth of the CDC, they have no records of spreading the virus by recovered individuals and yet none of this is taken into account... everyone must get the shot. Why? Ask Rand Paul, he's been trying to get this answer from Fauci and the current administration for months. What has he received? Crickets.
How many "boosters" will be required to end this, we don't have any idea. I do my own research, I suggest you do yours before you trash mine and call me names please.

[keyspc]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Ah, our friends the anti-vaxxers are back.


...


"You know better. After all, you read it on the Internet and saw Tucker Carlson say it on Fox News. "


...t.

I wonder if any of them realize Tucker and most of them pushing these lies were among the first to get vaccinated!

[onewadd]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Powell had a blood cancer diagnosis - a type of cancer that greatly diminishes immunity - and then he caught COVID, and died from COVID.

We know who's lying. A great start, with your first post.

Why is everyone a liar that does not agree with you. Me thinks you are what you seem to fear the most.

Like everything else this should be a matter of personal choice. If you believe what you say about being vaccinated then the unvaccinated is no threat to you period.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by onewadd

We have never (at least in my lifetime) seen this much effort in forcing [vaccination] compliance. What gives??

What gives is a global pandemic which has and may continue to have significant impact, if not stopped as much as possible. I kind of thought that was obvious.

Let me close with this thought, all the push is on getting the vaccine. There are several proven treatments and we hear basically nothing about them.

There are not yet 'several' proven treatments. There are one or two that are just now becoming available.

People that have been infected and recovered are more likely (testing proves as much as 35 times) to avoid reinfection plus from the mouth of the CDC, they have no records of spreading the virus by recovered individuals and yet none of this is taken into account.

Proof? Links? My understanding is otherwise: immunity from infection varies greatly, and is not as consistently strong or broad as the protection from most of the vaccines.

How many "boosters" will be required to end this, we don't have any idea.

That's correct... and the longer people reject vaccination or fail to observe other isolating measures, the more COVID will mutate, and the longer we will be in this limbo of restrictions, caution and boosters.

Originally Posted by onewadd

Why is everyone a liar that does not agree with you. Me thinks you are what you seem to fear the most.

Like everything else this should be a matter of personal choice. If you believe what you say about being vaccinated then the unvaccinated is no threat to you period.

I meant to indicate that the poster was repeating a lie. My apologies if that wasn't more clear.

The unvaccinated represent a threat to everyone, if they won't also observe restrictions. See above.

[onewadd]

"What gives is a global pandemic which has and may continue to have significant impact, if not stopped as much as possible. I kind of thought that was obvious."

We've had global viruses before, I thought that was obvious. Why is this one "the end of the world"? Less than 1% of infections result in death and it is proven over and over that deaths counted as Covid-19 are due to many other factors. Recording a death as Covid-19 pays much better than other causes, what would you do?

BTW, here is an interesting bit of information from the Imperial College of London:
"The COVID infection fatality ratio is around 1% in high-income countries, but substantially lower in low-income countries with younger populations." Again, do more research

"There are not yet 'several' proven treatments. There are one or two that are just now becoming available."

This is completely untrue. I could provide you with tons of information but alas, it would make no difference. Do your own homework.

"The unvaccinated represent a threat to everyone, if they won't also observe restrictions."

You mean like wearing mask? Again, maybe a very well fitted N-95 mask will help but using a chain link fence to stop mosquitos?? Really? There is a waterfall of studies that show very little benefit to mask wearing and "social distancing" but again, nothing I (or anyone else for that matter) say would cause you to leave your predefined space and look for more information.

"Proof? Links? My understanding is otherwise: immunity from infection varies greatly, and is not as consistently strong or broad as the protection from most of the vaccines."

I could drown you with links but it would do nothing. There is a lot of factual evidence to both many other treatments and natural immunity significantly lowering risk and mortality, why don't you google "just facts". A wealth of truth and facts on many subjects complete with sources is available there.

Last thought you didn't seem to respond to... why all the blocking of information that doesn't fit the prescribed narrative. Are they afraid you might learn something "they" don't want you to know? I wonder why that might be... follow the money.

[boatpoker]

Sharon and I make no attempt to convince anyone on the issue of Covid or vaccines.
We know who the anti-vaxxers are in our neighborhood and avoid them like the ... Plague.
They tend to be people we would not normally associate with anyway

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by billgewater

So what has Darwinian theory to say here? The unprotected will be eliminated?

.

Bilge, I am not an anti-vaxxer nor do I discount the possibility of a variant emerging that will upset the things we know.

The statement above seems to mirror much of the reaction I hear from people by making Covid infection a binary event. Get Covid and die or get vaccinated and live. Neither is true.

According to the chart Mike inserted above the chance of dying after getting Covid currently stands a 1.4-1.6 % here in North America. I do understand that as time has gone on the proportions change since many have been vaccinated but the unprotected will not be eliminated.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by onewadd

I could drown you with links but it would do nothing. There is a lot of factual evidence to both many other treatments and natural immunity significantly lowering risk and mortality, why don't you google "just facts". A wealth of truth and facts on many subjects complete with sources is available there.

I've been all over this thing, since its inception. Your opinions seem entirely in line with the typical position of those in the US who downplay COVID, so I suspect that your links would do little more than repeat these distortions.

A thought exercise, if you're genuinely interested in following the money.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by danstanford

According to the chart Mike inserted above the chance of dying after getting Covid currently stands a 1.4-1.6 % here in North America. I do understand that as time has gone on the proportions change since many have been vaccinated but the unprotected will not be eliminated.

Yes indeed, the odds of surviving Covid-19, in ALL age brackets, has always been excellent. But suggesting a 1.5% (average ) mortality rate is somehow low is utterly ridiculous.

NOT that you are doing this here Dan ... I know you're not. But others keep repeating this foolishness.

[Nord Sal]

Originally Posted by danstanford

Bilge, I am not an anti-vaxxer nor do I discount the possibility of a variant emerging that will upset the things we know.

The statement above seems to mirror much of the reaction I hear from people by making Covid infection a binary event. Get Covid and die or get vaccinated and live. Neither is true.

According to the chart Mike inserted above the chance of dying after getting Covid currently stands a 1.4-1.6 % here in North America. I do understand that as time has gone on the proportions change since many have been vaccinated but the unprotected will not be eliminated.

You make a good point about the binary reactions people are having with respect to Covid-19 infections and vaccines.

I'd like to make a correction to your statement that the chances of dying from a Covid-19 infection are 1.4 to 1.6% in North America.

As stated above, the 1.4-1.6% chance of dying is only for official cases (Case Fatality Rate) and is not for all Covid-19 infections. Since there are more people infected with the disease than there are official cases, the chances of dying from a Covid-19 infection (Infection Fatality Rate) are lower than those numbers from Johns Hopkins.

I don't think anyone disputes the Johns Hopkins numbers that Mike presented. I also don't think Mike would dispute that those JH numbers are for a case fatality rate (see his post #49 and #59 where he says so).

I'm sure we've all heard about the existence of asymptomatic infections of Covid-19. People who don't get sick very infrequently become cases and, furthermore, those who do experience symptoms but don't get tested and recover on their own don't become cases at all. Thus, Covid-19 infections are greater in number than are the number of cases of Covid-19 infections.

Given the fact that not all infections become cases, I think that the vast majority of reasonable people would agree that the probabilities of death from a Covid-19 infection are lower than the 1.4 -1.6% CFRs reported by Johns Hopkins.

[Mike OReilly]

I urge everyone here to take 40 minutes out of your day to listen to this discussion with Steven Pinker.

https://youtu.be/8DHHt2sOmzw

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Nord Sal

Given the fact that not all infections become cases, I think that the vast majority of reasonable people would agree that the probabilities of death from a Covid-19 infection are lower than the 1.4 -1.6% CFRs reported by Johns Hopkins.

My daughter-in-law is a government statistician.
She has often demonstrated to me over the years that she can make any complex set of statistics say whatever she wants.
She has often seen her reports used to push a point that she couldn't see in her numbers.

[Nord Sal]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

My daughter-in-law is a government statistician.
She has often demonstrated to me over the years that she can make any complex set of statistics say whatever she wants.
She has often seen her reports used to push a point that she couldn't see in her numbers.

Your daughter is absolutely correct about stats. As Mark Twain (and others) have said: "Lies, damn lies and statistics!"

In this light, I'm trying to point out this one error being promulgated in this thread.

It seems clear to me that the Johns Hopkins numbers being presented in this thread are case fatality rates. It's also clear to me that people in this thread refering to those numbers and stating that the probability of death is 1.4 to 1.6% if you are infected with Covid-19 in North America. It's also clear that the number of Covid-19 infections are greater than the number of Covid-19 cases.

The point I'm trying to make is that these Johns Hopkins statistics, while valid for what they represent, are being misrepresented for what they actually are. IFR is always less than CFR.

If anything I said above or in the post that you quoted is incorrect, please let me know. I'm open to constructive criticism.

[senormechanico]

In Germany, if you haven't been vaccinated against Covid you will not be allowed to be euthanized. No joke.


The euthanasia association says that “assisted death” is only for those who are vaccinated against COVID-19. Oh, the irony…
Anyone wishing to be euthanized (or killed with medical help) now has to first present proof of vaccination or recovery from Covid, as per the new guidelines issued by Germany’s euthanasia association, according to RT. The total irony of this is not lost. Aren’t the “vaccinated” taking the shots so they don’t die? Because their fear of dying from something with a survival rate of over 99.99% is overwhelming the reptilian part of their brain? And many of those who don’t take the vaccine say it’s because they want to remain alive and not face detrimental side effects.
A statement put out by the Hamburg-based group on Friday reads “assisted suicide and the preliminary examination of a patient’s ability to make decisions freely implies physical closeness between people. However, that is precisely the precondition for the spread of Covid.” So there’s no moral line drawn here about helping other human beings kill themselves, they just don’t want to get COVID, which is nothing more than a common cold from the people they are helping die.
Fascinating. So now the unvaccinated are banned from asking other people to help them kill themselves. You can’t make this up!


https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-ne...vaccinated-now