corona virus alerts - Latest cruising Information for vessels/locations/rules

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Why is there so much obsession with ventilators? I believe something like 80% of patients who are put on ventilators die... extending the suffering. I hear in places patients choose not to be put on ventilators...

As others state below, the issue presumably is about being able to cope with the younger folks who stand a better chance of survival (40-60%?) .
But I otherwise agree with you on a related point; lots of folks on the vent will need dialysis (though there are sort of work-around for this...survivors are more apt to have long term kidney and other issues).

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

FWIW, in one of the official gov't medical reports I glimpsed at, I came up with CPAP as being the equivalent of a ventilator. Not sure if they meant it as a term for ventilation itself or the actual machine. If the latter, there is some comfort in that as many of us have one already. Anyone here with a medical background has a scoop on that?

CPAP/BIPAP (like home units) won't work. Generally people go very quickly from pissed off lungs that can move air...to fluid filled lungs that need both nuanced high pressure delivery and frequent phlegm suctioning. WHO guidance is ~"intubate (tube down throat) if the pt is starting to crump." In the hospital BIPAP might delay the need for intubation by minutes to hours, but BIPAP doesn't count as an effective intervention/equivalent to a ventilator.
I understand that some group is organized trying to figure out how to hack/repurpose home machines, but that's pretty sketchy, and the person still needs a tube down the throat, ICU setting, etc.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

...In a minority of cases, COVID-19 causes pneumonia which alone or with knock-on effects leads to death. This happens more often with the old and those with preexisting issues, but has also happened to the young and fit...

Agreed that the capacity to at least salvage the younger people is what is most concerning (assuming rationing is needed).

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Just seen a news report that 21 million cell phones in China have become inactive.
Your guess is as good as mine.......

Inactive means they lost the customer. Probably signs of the economic slow down.

China’s wireless carriers are reporting drops in users as the coronavirus crisis cuts business activity, with China Mobile Ltd., the world’s largest carrier, reporting its first net decline since starting to report monthly data in 2000.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...as-virus-bites

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

Musk donated to LA hospitals 1,255 ventilators which he helped acquire from China.

“China had an oversupply, so we bought 1255 FDA-approved ResMed, Philips & Medtronic ventilators on Friday night & airshipped them to LA,” wrote Musk in a Monday tweet. “If you want a free ventilator installed, please let us know!”
➥ https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1242279396226011137

Previously, Musk posted a tweet saying: “The coronavirus panic is dumb.”
➥ https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/...nic-is-dumb%2F

Ford is partnering with 3M and GE Healthcare to make respirators and ventilators, CNN reported.
➥ https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/busin...e-2/index.html

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by zeehag

if anyone wishes to be of true assistance in this crisis, please consider making masks as there are too few for proper care of folks.. nurses arr e not able to acquire enough for proper care of folks. please do a positive and good deed for nurses everywhere.
this particular mask is able to receive inserts made of gauze over coffee filters for protecting nurses and patients the hard way.

is a youtube tutorial on mask making with pouch and wires.

Other options:
- Wear a bandanna cowboy style.
- Wear a scarf wrapped around your face.

I'm sure there are other similar options. Keep in mind the goal for individuals is to minimize the droplets they spread to others.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I watched that video. But there's no proof those pills actually helped this guy. He could have gotten better on his own. There is also the other guy who killed himself while self medicating with this stuff. This medicine needs further testing before it's prescribed to billions.

That guy didn't take malaria medication.

He and his wife took aquarium cleaner that was labeled as dangerous to ingest.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

In Vietnam (1970) we were taking Acloriquine-primaquine-phosphate tablets once a week. A lot of us got stomach ache’s and decided it was better to take our chances. It’s funny. I never met anyone that ever got malaria.
And here I am in the Philippines with mosquitoes all around but the biggest concern is dengue. Which come from the rare daytime mosquitoes.

That's why the brits started serving quinine with some lime juice and gin...suddenly the swabies lined up to get their daily dose.

[GordMay]

Tech executives, including: Tim Cook, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Marc Benioff, Jack Ma, and Satya Nadella, promised 18 million masks to fight COVID-19
➥ https://www.businessinsider.com/tech...er-equipment-6

[GordMay]

Almost half of Canada's COVID-19 cases are caused by spread in the community from an unknown source, and experts say, that signals there could be a silent epidemic happening across the country.

Of the 1,044 cases, that the Public Health Agency of Canada has provided epidemiological data on, as of Monday (Mar 23), 48 per cent are a result of infection from community transmission, while 42 per cent are tied to travel, and seven per cent are linked to close contact with a traveller who tested positive.

If a virus is now spreading in the community, what that means is that we don't have a really good ability to be able to monitor where that virus is, who it's going to, and who that person has contacted. Community transmission is particularly challenging, because the virus doesn't produce symptoms, in everyone it infects. For every one case we identify, there are probably quite a few other cases, that have not been identified, and that are able to transmit virus readily in our communities.

Epidemiological summary of COVID-19 cases in Canada
➥ https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...-19-cases.html

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Inactive means they lost the customer. Probably signs of the economic slow down.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...as-virus-bites

My understanding of how Chinese society operates at present makes having a mobile phone, and a consistent mobile phone number, a high priority in China, and not something that many Chinese would haphazardly give up.

It certainly is an interesting coincidence, to say the very least.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GordMay

............

If a virus is now spreading in the community, what that means is that we don't have a really good ability to be able to monitor where that virus is, who it's going to, and who that person has contacted. Community transmission is particularly challenging, because the virus doesn't produce symptoms, in everyone it infects. For every one case we identify, there are probably quite a few other cases, that have not been identified, and that are able to transmit virus readily in our communities.
.........

Exactly! There must be plenty people like Richard Wilkins who has tested positive for Corona three times in the last 19 days yet has no symptoms. If it wasn't for the initial test, he would have been out and about for the past 19 days spreading the virus hither and yon.

EDIT 10 days not 19 - typo!
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coro...20-%2020200325

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Exactly! There must be plenty people like Richard Wilkins who has tested positive for Corona three times in the last 19 days yet has no symptoms. If it wasn't for the initial test, he would have been out and about for the past 19 days spreading the virus hither and yon.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coro...20-%2020200325

The article says over 10 days, not 19 days. typo?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Paul L

The article says over 10 days, not 19 days. typo?

Thanks. Yes, a typo - my bad.

[s/v Jedi]

To all who wrote that I was wrong that 80% of covid-19 patients that require mechanical ventilation die: I looked it up, it was 81% in Wuhan and other data even much higher (30/31 died etc.) Here is the data (there are many links when you search) https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...633-4/fulltext

Some wrote that it is about the 20% that survive. Maybe they would have survived without mechanical ventilation as well and could have avoided organ failure? I saw anecdotes that indicate that lung exercise may be a better option than a ventilator

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

To all who wrote that I was wrong that 80% of covid-19 patients that require mechanical ventilation die: I looked it up, it was 81% in Wuhan and other data even much higher (30/31 died etc.) Here is the data (there are many links when you search) https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...633-4/fulltext

Some wrote that it is about the 20% that survive. Maybe they would have survived without mechanical ventilation as well and could have avoided organ failure? I saw anecdotes that indicate that lung exercise may be a better option than a ventilator

Ok sorry. and thanks for the clarification. Scary stuff.

I do note that the study is based on the FIRST MONTH of data from China. i would like to see the same calculation based on more recent data, and from multiple sources, especially Germany, who apparently are seeing a lower mortality rate.


What would "lung exercise" be? 4 days of CPR? Ouch.

[rudykruger]

Originally Posted by Group9

My understanding of how Chinese society operates at present makes having a mobile phone, and a consistent mobile phone number, a high priority in China, and not something that many Chinese would haphazardly give up.

It certainly is an interesting coincidence, to say the very least.

I worked in China for a period of time 6 years ago. A large number of Chinese carried multiple phones, some work and personal but many had multiple personal phones.

Conspiracy-minded types point to the drop in mobile subscriptions as proof of the real Chinese virus toll but given what I saw I can imagine people giving up second or third phones to save some money...