Merged LiFeYPO4 1000Ah Winston prismatic cells and all electric galley...

[CatNewBee]

A lot of questions.

I have 4 ML RBS solenoids, 2 on the load side connected to the battery in parallel via fuses (one dedicated to the Quattro and one for anything else) controlled by the BMS Load relay,

2 for the charge bus in series, the first to the battery controlled by the BMS CHARGE relay, and the other in series to this, controlled by the BMV configured as charge relay (separate diagram)

All this is on the same circuit board.

D1 and D2 are protection diodes built in into the relays used. Coincidently the relay coils are around 1.2..1.5kOhm at 12V, so they work also as resistors for the LED and use only 10mA to hold the contact. That was the reason there is not a model number on the plan. You can use any general purpose 12V diodes like 1N4001 or similar if you use other relays, you may need an resistor and put the led with it in parallel to the coil if your relay has a much lower resistance. That would be the two you miss in the diagramm (R8, R11), they were there in the original plan, but then simplyfied and saved 20mA.

The transistors are also random NPN with sufficient current to drive the relays. I chose them because I had them laying around, but any one similar will do. R1, R2, R9, R12 are 15 Ohm, you also can use 1A fuses instead or simply leave them away. They are sacrificial and meant to limit the current to 1A in case of a accidential shortcut to protect the contacts of the bms relays and the print relay contacts. The real currents here are few mA charge current for the capacitors, they are 250mW types and would not survive long time currents of 1A to ground. Just a fuse that limits efficiently to 1A.

R3, R4... are resistors of 1.5 kOhm, limiting the current trough the diodes to 10mA to make them light up efficiently.

[WizClark]

CatNewBee

Great informative thread. I've just spent the last week while in Lockdown here in NZ adding a Pi/Venus to my Quattro and linking to another Pi running Signal K and Node Red. I also have the YachtDevices dongle providing the Raymarine data. Good Stuff, and easier than I expected. I will be ordering my Winston's and REC ABMS this week. I'm really interested in the customization you did to the Venus Image. Are you posting details of that in any forums? or do you have an outline of the process you would share? Also you stated that you connected the BMS to the Pi via rs485. Is that equivalent to connecting with a MK3 to USB victron cable? I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve with wiring things to the Pi.

Again thanks for sharing all the information in this project thread!

[CatNewBee]

Physically it is the same like any othe USB device, it is a USB interface, the one you use for programming, but you must interrupt the plus power lead between the REC BMS and the Interface cable when connecting to the usb hub, so make a separate connection or a intermediate adapter. You need the plus connected when updating firmware to power the REC BMS externally by the computer, so do nor alter the cable itself.

Of course you need a program to read the values and feed them into the DBUS. Victron does not understand or even detect the interface as something to deal with.

I have not posted the software, because it is a customization adapted for my system, it was not meant for general use, and also software updates from Victron may overwrite it.

The whole victron thing is open source available on GitHub.

Generally it is made of independent modules, exchanging data via the DBUS.

Each interface is represented by a bunch of services, there may be a discovery service polling for new interfaces, a service actually registering the interface, polling the data every second and publishing it to a device tree on DBUS and a watchdog and logging service, that restarts the device in case it crashes.

Then there are other services with the same structure (polling work process, watchdog) to process and aggregate the data for the GUI, for example the systemcalc.py, or the process, that publishes the data to the VRM portal and handles software updates etc.

Then there is the GUI, that reads the data and displays it, or changes it. (same thing, GUI process, watchdog)

The DBUS uses events to communicate, but the services also use timers to wake up and look for changes, so it is a kind of polling.

Some of the services are compiled C++, others are python scripts, the GUI is done in heavily nested QML scripts, a declarative language similar to python or java, some helper functions are written in java script. So not too hard to read for a programmer, but time consuming.

But back to the REC interface, I wrote a driver service to gather the data and write it to the DBUS, modified the systemcalc script to process the data for the GUI and added / changed the QML pages to display the data, so basically patched and extended the whole thing. All done in scripting, no compiling necessary.

[frederic_b]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

For expedition vessels there are diesel stove options, a generator can also help. Multihulls have more realestate for solar, so what we have installed is sufficient for the summer and warm climates / bluewater. The genny can help in long bad weather and heat the boat, we intent to add a forced air diesel heater as a more efficient option for higher lattitudes.

But we will definitely avoid LPG on board.

Well ... it's been a long read, a challenging one as well, when electric studies are long passed. Broad and deep thread, informative in both theoretical and practical ways.

CNB, thks so much for taking the time to share all this.

My actual experience is limited to a factory installed L450 with 3 solar panels and extra battery capacity.
Along 22.000 miles in the Med over the last 10 years, sharing your sailing habits apparently, I added a D400 wind generator to cope with situations when solar wouldn't suffice. Been a perfect (silent and efficient) complement to solar for 5 years. Now it starts to vibrate somewhat -- some bearings to change maybe ?

Anyway, planning the electric system of the next cat (Aluminium Garcia catamaran to be delivered ... in 2020), this will be the inspiration of course, as we wanted to get rid of gaz with no usage compromise (I liked the NAS part very much).

Only difference is that after 10y in the Med, we plan to sail higher latitudes (Norway, Iceland, Patagonia ...), so there might be some complement to solar.
At this 'paper-study' stage, I was thinking 2x600W hydro generators (maybe pod models, altough I'm worried about propeller repair), solar panel roof integration on both sides of the boom, maybe some more if needed over the davits. I would skip wind generator if I was sure it wouldn't compensate for lack of solar production in high latitudes.

And yes, we're planning for a diesel stove heating system (Refleks type) with some radiators in the hulls :-)

Thks again CNB !

[BetterDays 2020]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

detail with the MPPT controller on the right...Attachment 173896

CNB, In the photo of your MPPT what is plugged into the front of the MPPT controller and does it go to the REM BMS? Do I need to have a version of MPPT that has this front port?

I have looked around this post and have not been able to find them, could you post your settings for your BMS, MPPT, Quattro and BMV? I have reviewed the REC BMS online materials and it has a lot of customizable settings. Just wondering if you have changed them or used the default settings.

The two Miniature Single In-line Reed Relay on your interface board are they NC?

Can you give a little explanation on what you have the Quattro AUX and T1 circuits controlling?

Thanks again,

[CatNewBee]

No, it is a MPPT SmartSolar controller.

The port on topp you are probably referring to, is a DB9 serial plug. The interface is used to mount the optional display module. I have extended it by a long serial cable to the nav station and have installed the display remotely there. It makes no sense to have it under the bunk, you cannot see it there.

This is an old picture. Anyway, on the right down corner of the controller is a small black plug with a short bridge wire, this can be removed and can be used to shut down the solar controller remotely. You can extend the interface of the OPTO CH channel by using a relay with 2 NO contacts and use one for the quattro and one for the MPPT SmartSolar to stop the charge by the BMS. Is on my list, but have not done it yet. The programmability of the MPPT is great, so I do not feel the urge to change my interface at the moment.

There is no necessity to intervene by the BMS yet.

On the left is the white socket of the VEDirect interface, this is now connected to a custom cable to the nav station on a serial RS232 TTL to USB converter and then to a 7 port 12V powered USB HUB, along with a similar cable with decoupling resistors to the BMV 712 VEDirect USB interface, the RJ45 - RS485 VEBus to USB MK2 cable to the Victron Quartro, the modified RS485 to DB9 cable for the REC ABMS, the USB cable for the touch screen power supply and touch, a USB GPS mouse and finally the RaspberryPi CCGX computer, that is also powered by the hub. They are not essential for the functionality of the LFP, but great to gather and aggregate the data to a single point. I use RJ45 cabling for data connections on board and adapters to feed in and out the serial signals at the ends, so the cabling can be used universally and can be reconfigured easily if changes are necessary. If you want networked Victron installations, you have to add a lot of interface cabling.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by BetterDays 2020

CNB, In the photo of your MPPT what is plugged into the front of the MPPT controller and does it go to the REM BMS? Do I need to have a version of MPPT that has this front port?

I have looked around this post and have not been able to find them, could you post your settings for your BMS, MPPT, Quattro and BMV? I have reviewed the REC BMS online materials and it has a lot of customizable settings. Just wondering if you have changed them or used the default settings.

The two Miniature Single In-line Reed Relay on your interface board are they NC?

Can you give a little explanation on what you have the Quattro AUX and T1 circuits controlling?

Thanks again,

Aux1 and T1 are both configured as digital inputs with the macro 2 wire external BMS from Victron, AUX1 controls charge, T1 controls discharge, see the interface diagram. When the charge relay opens (cell voltage over 3.65V), the Quattro charger is forced to float, if T1 contact opens, the Quattro turns off the inverter.

All relays on the interface board are NC/NO, usually only the NO contact is used, same here, look at the circuit diagram. NC contacts are usually drawn closed, NO contact are drawn open on circuits.

The settings are published in this thread some posts ago. I use to update it when I change settings.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

So, my REC is now integrated in the Venus / CCGX RaspberryPi system via rs485, with online readings and settings. Needs some polishing, dedugging and testing, but works.

This lockdown is great for such projects if you cannot sail or walk around... Attachment 211310Attachment 211311Attachment 211312Attachment 211313

Settings REC

[CatNewBee]

MPPT and BMV settings...

[yvest]

Wow ! impressive set up ! Need to read more thoroughly.

I was wondering, do you plan to add some automation in the system?

By this I mean things like : automate the start of the water heater or water maker, when the battery is toped off and the solar still producing for instance.
Or have them run at defined time.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by yvest

Wow ! impressive set up ! Need to read more thoroughly.

I was wondering, do you plan to add some automation in the system?

By this I mean things like : automate the start of the water heater or water maker, when the battery is toped off and the solar still producing for instance.
Or have them run at defined time.

Thought about it, but finally, no.

I run the watermaker manually only if there is a need to refil and the water around is clear, regarding hot water, would be possible, but usually the Admiral is keen to run the washing machine and is watching the SOC, so semi - automatic I would say [emoji1787]...

She needs the job, it creates some awareness on the energy situation and finaly justifies the investment...

[yvest]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Thought about it, but finally, no.

I run the watermaker manually only if there is a need to refil and the water around is clear, regarding hot water, would be possible, but usually the Admiral is keen to run the washing machine and is watching the SOC, so semi - automatic I would say [emoji1787]...

She needs the job, it creates some awareness on the energy situation and finaly justifies the investment...

Thanks for the info, indeed it makes sense for the water maker, could lead to bad surprises if forgotten.. And if there is a real intelligence doing it even better!

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by yvest

Wow ! impressive set up ! Need to read more thoroughly.

I was wondering, do you plan to add some automation in the system?

By this I mean things like : automate the start of the water heater or water maker, when the battery is toped off and the solar still producing for instance.
Or have them run at defined time.

as to automation such as you describe it would be ill advisable for running the watermaker without human input bad water conditions in a harbor can cost you a membrane.
As to the water heater that is quite easy its called a dump load. . A relay that engages when a certain minimum voltage point is met while charging . I plan on having that setup for my holding plate refrigeration system . To force start bypassing the thermostat .

[beckett]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

Attachment 170911
this one was done with tinyCAD...

Thank you CNB. I finally came to this page and found this nice schematics! Why the "Yellow switch state" wires are not in use?

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by beckett

Thank you CNB. I finally came to this page and found this nice schematics! Why the "Yellow switch state" wires are not in use?

Because they are not needed for the circut, you see the state of the bms already and you can see the state on the solenoids on the push button. No need for another 10mA per solenoid.