Can anybody explain the Spanish Med sailing zones?

[goboatingnow]

I said the same thing a few posts above , the RCD was not intended to limit boats to sea areas , but some national authorities have done so.

[Killter]

Hi again,


Thanks for the replies.


Although I am Irish, I am a Spanish resident to for me the boat will be Spanish flagged.

[iabmatos]

Just adding a piece of information regarding regulations in different countries: in Brazil, coastal navigation is "in sight of land", so your 12NM gets really reduced to "protected waters" in bad weather. It makes sense.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Killter

Hi again,


Thanks for the replies.


Although I am Irish, I am a Spanish resident to for me the boat will be Spanish flagged.

You'd probably be better off flagging it Irish.

As far as distance offshore and regulations, there are three considerations for Spanish flagged vessels.
1. CE rating
2. safety equipment
3. operator qualifications

By keeping the vessel non-Spanish flagged, you will be able to avoid restrictions re operator qualifications. Unless your Spanish is more or less fluent, you will not get thru the tests ( available only in Spanish) to reach the level where you can sail 25 miles offshore... and going thru the hoops to get to that level is expensive. Even Spaniards avoid it if they can. All Spanish flagged vessels require Spanish operator qualifications

As to safety equipment, as long as you are a Spanish resident, regardless of the vessel flag or your nationality, you are obliged to meet Spanish requirements. This came into law last year. Prior to that, foreign flagged vessels only had to meet the safety requirements of the flag they flew.

Can't speak to CE markings and to what degree they they matter, but I suspect any EU built boat over 30 ft. should be rated for at least 25 nm miles off shore... which is all you would need to go to Ebiza from Denia ( that's the halfway point).

In short, CE markings are probably the least of your concern. The Spanish sailing qualifications ( should you decided to flag the vessel Spanish) will be your biggest hassle, and the offshore safety equipment will add considerable expense to the purchase if the vessel is not equipped up to date.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Greg K

You'd probably be better off flagging it Irish.

As far as distance offshore and regulations, there are three considerations for Spanish flagged vessels.
1. CE rating
2. safety equipment
3. operator qualifications

By keeping the vessel non-Spanish flagged, you will be able to avoid restrictions re operator qualifications. Unless your Spanish is more or less fluent, you will not get thru the tests ( available only in Spanish) to reach the level where you can sail 25 miles offshore... and going thru the hoops to get to that level is expensive. Even Spaniards avoid it if they can. All Spanish flagged vessels require Spanish operator qualifications

As to safety equipment, as long as you are a Spanish resident, regardless of the vessel flag or your nationality, you are obliged to meet Spanish requirements. This came into law last year. Prior to that, foreign flagged vessels only had to meet the safety requirements of the flag they flew.

Can't speak to CE markings and to what degree they they matter, but I suspect any EU built boat over 30 ft. should be rated for at least 25 nm miles off shore... which is all you would need to go to Ebiza from Denia ( that's the halfway point).

In short, CE markings are probably the least of your concern. The Spanish sailing qualifications ( should you decided to flag the vessel Spanish) will be your biggest hassle, and the offshore safety equipment will add considerable expense to the purchase if the vessel is not equipped up to date.

Can you please share the listed content of the safety package required?
We will head for Spain on a German flagged vessel, I like to check if we have everything we need.

Thanks.

[Alita49DS]

All EU RCD vessels are required to have a plate prominently affixed by the manufacturer. That will tell you the class.

In years of sailing the Med nobody, but nobody, had ever bothered me over these rules.

The one and only thing you will be asked for just about everywhere you put in is for a valid insurance certificate. In the local language. Preferably. Your insurer will provide.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Can you please share the listed content of the safety package required?
We will head for Spain on a German flagged vessel, I like to check if we have everything we need.

Thanks.

Sorry, don't have the document at hand. At any rate, as a German flagged vessel (and presumably not a Spanish resident) you will not be subject to these Spanish regulations.

Better to check with the German regulations in your case I would think.

[goboatingnow]

Again , irrespective of the NZ legal case , countries can mandate specific equipment that applies to any boat irrespective of flag that plies their territorial waters. Comity usually applies but can be overridden. Ireland’s lifejacket carriage requirements and usage rules apply irrespective of the vessels flag for example

I’d suggest polish registry as the Irish one has onerous documentation requirements.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Sorry, don't have the document at hand. At any rate, as a German flagged vessel (and presumably not a Spanish resident) you will not be subject to these Spanish regulations.

Better to check with the German regulations in your case I would think.

Thx.
We do comply with the German regs.

Reason I was asking for the Spanish list was that some said that Spain enforces their equipment compliance onto other European vessels.

This would have been a clear violation of international law regarding flag state procedures.
Sounds like they did not get away with this, which is a good thing.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Thx.
We do comply with the German regs.

Reason I was asking for the Spanish list was that some said that Spain enforces their equipment compliance onto other European vessels.

This would have been a clear violation of international law regarding flag state procedures.
Sounds like they did not get away with this, which is a good thing.

I’m not sure where this idea comes that national law isn’t applicable inside a nations territorial waters to all vessels.

It is, that’s a fact. Comity usually applies but many nations do not apply comity to certain aspects.

A nation is free to apply its laws to vessels not on innocent passage , that includes most leisure vessels including those that visit its ports and marinas.

Your flag does not provide you with diplomatic immunity

There is no such thing as “ international law”. There are merely multi lateral agreements which countries may or may not be signatories to or may have caveats etc

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’m not sure where this idea comes that national law isn’t applicable inside a nations territorial waters to all vessels.

It is, that’s a fact. Comity usually applies but many nations do not apply comity to certain aspects.

A nation is free to apply its laws to vessels not on innocent passage , that includes most leisure vessels including those that visit its ports and marinas.

Your flag does not provide you with diplomatic immunity

There is no such thing as “ international law”. There are merely multi lateral agreements which countries may or may not be signatories to or may have caveats etc

This is just my opinion on the subject & meant in a friendly way.

If every country would enforce its very own set of rules of navigation and equipment requirements on each vessel coming into their territorial waters, I do suspect that international trade would be very limited.

Hence international rules requiring primarily that vessels comply with their own flags states regulations and international conventions make a lot of sense.
There may be certain adjustments to this on a local level, but I do suspect it is very rare that entirely different set of rules are applied.

If for example hypothetically Spain, or any other country, would require an EPIRB from a list of a few manufacturers, France would require EPIRB from other manufacturers and say the US from yet another, we're would we end up.
Same applies regarding that certain equipment would need to be installed by locally certified personnel and similar.

Diplomatic immunity is a completely different thing.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

This is just my opinion on the subject & meant in a friendly way.

If every country would enforce its very own set of rules of navigation and equipment requirements on each vessel coming into their territorial waters, I do suspect that international trade would be very limited.

Hence international rules requiring primarily that vessels comply with their own flags states regulations and international conventions make a lot of sense.
There may be certain adjustments to this on a local level, but I do suspect it is very rare that entirely different set of rules are applied.

If for example hypothetically Spain, or any other country, would require an EPIRB from a list of a few manufacturers, France would require EPIRB from other manufacturers and say the US from yet another, we're would we end up.
Same applies regarding that certain equipment would need to be installed by locally certified personnel and similar.

Diplomatic immunity is a completely different thing.

You are no doubt familiar with the principle of comity , that’s what’s normally applied

The issue of different standards largely doesn’t apply in the EU anyway. Once CE marked it’s acceptable

I know for a fact as it was explained to me, that French laws for leisure vessels applies to ALL leisure vessels whilst in French waters. That’s irrespective of the requirements of the flag states

However the French do not carry out intensive inspections of leisure vessels and where there is non conformity they ask you to fix it rather then fining you.

BUT. They have full powers if they wish to apply them ( thankfully that’s rare )

The same is true of Irish life jackets legislation ,for example within territorial waters children under 16 MUST wear them while on deck ( or in an open boat ) again this is not a function of national flag laws.

Again compliance is light touch and most of the time you are asked to comply , how et the legislation has considerable fines and the officers can invoke considerable powers upto and including detention of the vessel

National laws apply ,the fact that in sailing countries they are light touch is merely pragmatism at work.

[KompetentKrew]

Originally Posted by Franziska

If every country would enforce its very own set of rules of navigation and equipment requirements on each vessel coming into their territorial waters, I do suspect that international trade would be very limited.

"Coming and going into territorial waters" is innocent passage - either passing the country offshore, or going into port and immediately leaving again.

If you want to stay in the country and cruise - stopping at more than one port in the country - that is when they are allowed to impose their rules on you.

[boatman61]

To be honest I have only been questioned about equipment twice since 1985.. once when I arrived in Cherbourg in '93 on my Tiki 26 when the day after I arrived a couple of bods appeared and questioned my sailing with just compass and charts and nothing else.. they eventually conceded that's all one needed to navigate.
The second time was in Portugal when I entered my Hurley 22 onto the Portuguese register for a buyer. I was supplied with a list off equipment needed to qualify.
Otherwise authorities have been more interested in ownership paperwork, passports etc and not how many flares, life jackets etc you carry.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by KompetentKrew

"Coming and going into territorial waters" is innocent passage - either passing the country offshore, or going into port and immediately leaving again.



If you want to stay in the country and cruise - stopping at more than one port in the country - that is when they are allowed to impose their rules on you.

No any port access or navigation not involved in directly proceeding through a country’s waters is not innocent passage.