Narrowboat onboard systems?

[ranger58sb]

We've been watching an interesting travelogue series on English canal boats... and so I checked some hire providers to read about systems, but... most of their websites are strong on glitz and bling but short on detail.

Single inboard diesel, straight shaft, tiller steering, got that. (I think).

But I'm not seeing much about electricity, water, and waste... other than that there is some. (Microwaves, ovens, showers, toilets, etc. mentioned in adverts.)

So what electrical systems support the induction cooktops and microwaves and so forth? Not seeing shorepower hookups. Genset? Honkin' big inverter/battery bank system? Recharge from engine alternator? Or...?

What supports an oven, assuming maybe not electric? LPG or similar?

Water fill-up occasionally? Where?

Waste capture, and then pump-out later? Where?

I don't remember canal boating being a thing when I lived in England back in the mid-'70s... but apparently some of the canal restorations have only been done more recently than that...

The TV series adds an additional appreciation for steel boats in skinny waterways.

-Chris

[nine9feet]

Hi Chris

Originally Posted by ranger42c

We've been watching an interesting travelogue series on English canal boats... and so I checked some hire providers to read about systems, but... most of their websites are strong on glitz and bling but short on detail.

Most hirers are inexperienced users and would have little, if any, understanding of systems on the hire boats so you are unlikely to find any detail!

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Single inboard diesel, straight shaft, tiller steering, got that. (I think).

But I'm not seeing much about electricity, water, and waste... other than that there is some. (Microwaves, ovens, showers, toilets, etc. mentioned in adverts.)

So what electrical systems support the induction cooktops and microwaves and so forth? Not seeing shorepower hookups. Genset? Honkin' big inverter/battery bank system? Recharge from engine alternator? Or...?

Generally hire boats don't have induction hobs or electric ovens. As you surmise fuel is commonly bottled gas (LPG Propane in red bottles). Sometimes also used to heat water e.g. for showering or washing up.

There is usually a dual electrical system (12v DC and 230v AC). Battery charging from engine alternator and small inverter for mains operated devices. Most devices will operate from 12v DC onboard batteries. Hirers will be advised not to run e.g. microwave oven unless engine is running. Normally no genny as these will be petrol (gas) fuelled which is a safety issue on inland boats. Rarely shore power hook up as hirers will be mooring along the tow path and not in a marina.

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Water fill-up occasionally? Where?

Water taps (faucet?) are found at intervals along the waterway and at marinas. Boat is provided with a hose pipe to fill the onboard tank which is often quite small and may need refilling daily. Water points are indicated on maps of the system.

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Waste capture, and then pump-out later? Where?

Hire boats tend to be pump out rather than a cassette toilet and the holding tank is commonly big enough for a week or two with the boat's designated crewsize. Pumpouts are mostly found in marinas and cost around the $30 mark or so. The canal authority (CRT) also provide pumpout stations but the user needs to have pre-purchased a payment card to operate the machine. Not helpful for the hirer on holiday!

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I don't remember canal boating being a thing when I lived in England back in the mid-'70s... but apparently some of the canal restorations have only been done more recently than that...

I started narrowboating in 1970 and have hired from a number of different companies over the years. Not all are still in business!
Acquired my own boat a few years ago and travelled the system, living aboard. Facilities and systems on liveaboard boats are somewhat different from hire boats.
Most canal restorations are not of the waterways commonly travelled by hire boaters. But if you include all connected navigable waterways (canals and rivers) there is over 2000 miles to cruise.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
John UK

[ranger58sb]

Thanks, John, very enlightening.

The TV series we've been watching (Tim West & Prunella Scales) has been really interesting... but of course they don't really mention all those minor details about how stuff works.

Looks like bumper-cars, sometimes. While watching, we at first thought it'd make a great vacation (I could easily just cruise from pub to pub if I had to) but the locks actually look like more heavy work than my Admiral can do... and she's not at all used to tiller steering (and probably couldn't see over the bow) so the alternative staffing plan hasn't gotten much traction.

I lived in Herts and Beds at various times back then, don't really remember boats on the river in Bedford... but maybe there might have been a few on a canal near Peterborough (or maybe it was Milton Keynes?) that'd I'd pass occasionally.

Cheers, -Chris

[nine9feet]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Thanks, John, very enlightening.

The TV series we've been watching (Tim West & Prunella Scales) has been really interesting... but of course they don't really mention all those minor details about how stuff works. Looks like bumper-cars, sometimes.

Tim and Prue are lovely people and have been boating for a long time. How Tim still manages to steer so poorly is incredible. TV series like this seem to like to suggest that narrowboating is a "contact sport". Most private boaters don't approve and can be hostile to hirers who are learning and make mistakes. They forget that they had to learn once!

Originally Posted by ranger42c

While watching, we at first thought it'd make a great vacation (I could easily just cruise from pub to pub if I had to) but the locks actually look like more heavy work than my Admiral can do... and she's not at all used to tiller steering (and probably couldn't see over the bow) so the alternative staffing plan hasn't gotten much traction.

Some locks are hard work but most are pretty easy. In a year I used to manage solo 1000 miles and over 600 locks. Other boaters sometimes help at locks (though that seems to be disappearing). On the plus side is that you can travel for as far as you wish in daylight hours (as a hirer) or hardly move at all.

It is very common to see boating couples where the woman operates the locks and the man stands at the tiller. Personally I don't get it but each to their own!

Generally you can't actually see the bow when travelling/steering as it is obscured by the cabin roof unless the bow is very long - not usually found on hire boats.

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I lived in Herts and Beds at various times back then, don't really remember boats on the river in Bedford... but maybe there might have been a few on a canal near Peterborough (or maybe it was Milton Keynes?) that'd I'd pass occasionally.

Cheers, -Chris

Bedford is on the River Great Ouse and Peterborough is on the River Nene. I have moored at both and live just 10 miles from the latter. Milton Keynes is on the Grand Union Canal between Birmingham and London and there are narrowboats to be found there.

Cheers,
John

[ranger58sb]

We just yesterday watched the episode where Tim says "contact sport" -- after bashing an approaching boat.

I guess I really meant "see over the cabin" at the bow; wifey likely wouldn't be able to even see oncoming traffic.

My memory of the various areas around where I lived are kinda dim. Might have had something to do with the odd pint, not sure... In any case, I can't remember where I might have been travelling to/from if I'd gone through either Peterborough (perhaps more likely) or Milton Keynes. To be fair (or to at least suggest a better excuse, that was around 45-46 years ago.

-Chris

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

While watching, we at first thought it'd make a great vacation (I could easily just cruise from pub to pub if I had to) but the locks actually look like more heavy work than my Admiral can do... and she's not at all used to tiller steering (and probably couldn't see over the bow) so the alternative staffing plan hasn't gotten much traction.

Cheers, -Chris

Chris, we hired a 35ft canal boat to do the Llangollen Canal a couple of years ago. It's one of the prettier canals with some impressive aquaducts and tunnels, plus a couple of locks. At one an old dear who lived in the lock keepers cottage helps beginners. She closed one lock gate then with ease jumped the gap to the other side with ease.

The bridges are about 7'6" wide and the boat 6'8". We did so well with the first 3 bridges but number 4, we well had an allision. The hire companies know this is going to happen, that's why there is 15 tonnes of steel in the boat and sacrificial rubbing strips along the hull. A touch of black paint hides the worst. Boat controls are very basic so complete novices with no boating experience can handle them with ease.

The boat had gas cooking, big water and diesel tanks and a pump out holding tank that didn't need our attention for the week. They assume you are going to travel a bit each day so the batteries get a good charge and hot water. Shorepower available in the occasional marinas, but we didn't bother with them as there are miles of free moorings some with time limits like 48hr or 7 days in the more popular locations for obvious reasons. Heating was diesel and also heated the calorifier for hot water.

We took our own mifi and had really good internet connection all the time.

The boat cost us £550 for the week and you know, we had a really great time and plan to do it again. Try to avoid the school holidays of July and August and you have the place to yourself. We did the end of April. We bought two Welsh pasties and back on board decided to share one. The kettle gives a hint of the size.

Its a completely different type of holiday, so relaxed and a slow pace of life. A woman with a dog over took us walking along the canal path. Lots of really nice real English pubs along the route you wouldn't otherwise see.


Pete

[ranger58sb]

Thanks for chiming in, Pete.

Tim may well feel 15 tons of steel is quite sufficient to solve most steering issues.

We saw the episode about the Llangollen Canal passage, the aquaduct, etc. Very impressive engineering. (And then just completely by chance, some of the action in the murder mystery I just started reading takes place in/around the Llangollen Canal...)

Yesterday we watched the Irish episode, and their push-button lock system looks to be much more within my Admiral's reach.

I never met a Pub I couldn't visit... so I imagine on a trip like that, I'd probably never get too far... what with having to stop at each one we find along the way...

I gather it's most common to start someplace, leave the boat someplace at the other end of the trip?

-Chris

[pcmm]

You might want to look at "Cruising the cut" on youtube. It appears to be a much more reasonable representation of Canal cruising and would likely answer all your questions

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I gather it's most common to start someplace, leave the boat someplace at the other end of the trip? -Chris

We did an up and back trip taking in everything we missed the first time, even at 3 knots. East of Ellesmere to Llangollen. Very narrow at the top as it wasn't built as a canal but just a feeder stream for the rest of the canal network, hence why the Ellesmere canal survived whilst other were abandoned. However, for 50 years volunteer groups have worked to open them back up again. I visited the abandoned locks at Frankton on the Montgomery canal as a child and nice to go back and see the restored flight of 5 locks now fully restored some 5 decades later. Still some work to be done, should be finished in another couple of generations.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about...ration-project

There are some loops, the Stratford and Avon has one that is very pretty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdoXjX7z-mE&t=55s

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

We've been watching an interesting travelogue series on English canal boats... and so I checked some hire providers to read about systems, but... most of their websites are strong on glitz and bling but short on detail.

Single inboard diesel, straight shaft, tiller steering, got that. (I think).

But I'm not seeing much about electricity, water, and waste... other than that there is some. (Microwaves, ovens, showers, toilets, etc. mentioned in adverts.)

So what electrical systems support the induction cooktops and microwaves and so forth? Not seeing shorepower hookups. Genset? Honkin' big inverter/battery bank system? Recharge from engine alternator? Or...?

What supports an oven, assuming maybe not electric? LPG or similar?

Water fill-up occasionally? Where?

Waste capture, and then pump-out later? Where?

I don't remember canal boating being a thing when I lived in England back in the mid-'70s... but apparently some of the canal restorations have only been done more recently than that...

The TV series adds an additional appreciation for steel boats in skinny waterways.

-Chris

Yeah, well, its England so no solar power

(Source: I'm English)

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Thanks for chiming in, Pete.

Tim may well feel 15 tons of steel is quite sufficient to solve most steering issues.

We saw the episode about the Llangollen Canal passage, the aquaduct, etc. Very impressive engineering. (And then just completely by chance, some of the action in the murder mystery I just started reading takes place in/around the Llangollen Canal...)

Yesterday we watched the Irish episode, and their push-button lock system looks to be much more within my Admiral's reach.

I never met a Pub I couldn't visit... so I imagine on a trip like that, I'd probably never get too far... what with having to stop at each one we find along the way...

I gather it's most common to start someplace, leave the boat someplace at the other end of the trip?

-Chris

The Irish inland waterways system is very very different to the U.K. one

As we have the longest river in the British isles and some of its biggest lakes , most inland boating uses conventional sea going motorboats and yachts typically upto to 60 feet, and about 4 foot draft , yachts are limited to the lakes as the mast up route is now not possible. Locks are few , on the main Shannon navigation , are large ( 6 40 footers ) and operated by permanent professional staff.

There are about 2000 motor boats on the inland system which has approx 500 km of large craft navigable water

There are several canal systems. Unlike the U.K. all are broad canals, often linking navigable river sections and lakes. The most modern in the Shannon Erne system linking the two water way systems . This was completely restored with push button locks in 1995 and the system was dredged and bridges lifted to facilitate larger motor boats , it can be comfortably navigated in a 40 foot sea boat but big twins need to be very careful.

The other two canals are the Royal and the Grand , both linking the Shannon system to Dublin this were designed to take 70 foot by 13 feet “ M boats “ and were never designed for horse drawn systems. They have manually operated gates but these are most commonly operated for you by Waterways Ireland staff as you pass along.

These can be navigated by smaller fibreglass mobos , with varying degree of difficulty

The Shannon system is linked to the sea at Limerick and many larger sea going mobos go out and back that way.

There is no speed limit on the Shannon navigation but there is on the canalised river sections and canals proper.

The Shannon system and it’s big lakes ( 27 miles by 10 ) are not safe for U.K. style canal craft as the lakes in particularly can get very rough. A few try it now and again

[clownfishsydney]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Thanks, John, very enlightening.

The TV series we've been watching (Tim West & Prunella Scales) has been really interesting...

Wow, we saw them filming that series in 2013 when we visited UK to dive the Scarpa Flow German warships in Scotland.

We were on a narrowboat near Bath and Tim ran into our boat! No damage. Have never seen it shown here in Australia.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by pcmm

You might want to look at "Cruising the cut" on youtube. It appears to be a much more reasonable representation of Canal cruising and would likely answer all your questions

Thanks for that ref. 257 videos so far!

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Yeah, well, its England so no solar power

(Source: I'm English)

When I lived there ('76-'78) they was apparently considered drought years... not because it didn't rain, but because it didn't rain enough to fill the reservoirs. Water use restrictions, etc. For me... even though there were many sunny days during the warmer months.... it still seemed like it rained a LOT.

Originally Posted by clownfishsydney

Wow, we saw them filming that series in 2013 when we visited UK to dive the Scarpa Flow German warships in Scotland.

We were on a narrowboat near Bath and Tim ran into our boat! No damage. Have never seen it shown here in Australia.

Tim seems to run into lots of stuff. We've been watching the series -- Great Canal Journeys -- through Amazon Prime video.

-Chris

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

We just yesterday watched the episode where Tim says "contact sport" -- after bashing an approaching boat.

I'm generally against licensing requirements...but he sure makes a good case for them.

[boatpoker]

There is a version of narrowboat rentals on the NY State Canal System.
We intend to spend the entire summer on this amazing system in our own boat this year.

https://eriecanaladventures.com/

Cruising New York State Canal System, Erie, Cayuga, Seneca