4 in 5 UK Boat Owners May Quit Cruising Due to Post-Brexit Schengen Rules

[duncan_ellison]

Joh.Ghurt - Well that might not be as easy as you think. To achieve UKCA compliance COMPONENTS of the vessel need to be UKCA certified in their own right.

This means that UK shipbuilders can ONLY use radios, electronics, wheels, tankage etc etc which have a UKCA mark.

Already a number of well known suppliers in Europe have said that they will no longer supply to builders in the UK as the market is too small to justify the cost of between £1K and £25K to get components re-certified by a 'notified body' in the UK and add a UKCA mark to their products.

Notwithstanding the fact that the standards to which the items are assessed are EXACTLY the same to the letter, it still has to be re-certified.

If you were trying to screw the UK boatbuilding industry whilst at the same time creating a completely pointless bureaucratic paper exercise, you couldn't think up a better plan.

[Montanan]

Our company is in the early stages of pursuing the various regulatory markings for the European market, and yeah, the separate [but exactly the same requirements] for the UKCA is an added expense, hassle and time matter.

Per Wikipedia:

UK Conformity Assessed (UKCA) marking is a certification mark that indicates conformity with the applicable requirements for products sold within Great Britain

UKCA marking became part of UK law on "exit day", 31 January 2020, with the coming into force of The Product Safety and Metrology etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

Initial guidance regarding UKCA marking was originally published by the UK Government in 2019 ahead of a potential no-deal Brexit but subsequently withdrawn.

UKCA marking is set to become mandatory following the end of the Brexit transition period although details remain unclear and concerns have been raised by product manufacturers. The scope and procedures of the UKCA scheme will initially follow those for CE marking, but after 31 December 2020 the two schemes may diverge.

Northern Ireland
UKCA marking will only apply to products placed on the market in Great Britain. In Northern Ireland, CE marking will continue to be recognised.

Where a third-party conformity assessment is required and a UK body is used, UKNI marking will also be required in addition to the CE mark.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by duncan_ellison

Already a number of well known suppliers in Europe have said that they will no longer supply to builders in the UK as the market is too small to justify the cost of between £1K and £25K to get components re-certified by a 'notified body' in the UK and add a UKCA mark to their products.

Oh, how quaint! The Swiss tried something like this in the past with cars. They lost and now they have a treaty with the EU to accept their CoC. The car manufacturers couldn't be arsed and just told the importers to take care of it. Which made the cars a lot more expensive in Switzerland.

I guess this is how it will end for the UK too. Meanwhile the British shipyards have a problem.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Oh, how quaint! The Swiss tried something like this in the past with cars. They lost and now they have a treaty with the EU to accept their CoC. The car manufacturers couldn't be arsed and just told the importers to take care of it. Which made the cars a lot more expensive in Switzerland.

I guess this is how it will end for the UK too. Meanwhile the British shipyards have a problem.

Naah, just buy Hondas and Nissan..

[robertevans]

Originally Posted by duncan_ellison

To try to be helpful (rather than just adding to the political rhetoric here). I've researched this specific issue well and the problem is worse than it appears.

Take for example a fairly recent sailboat from any of the major vendors, say a 2005 Beneteau which you've been using in Europe. You've been happily running around Europe taking comfort in the CE 'A' Marking affixed to your boat and assumed that was all you needed. And indeed it is all you need in EU even if you sell the boat.

But now, you decide to bring it back to the UK to take advantage of the RGR (Returned Goods Relief) before it drops drops away June 2022. So you pick a day in April 2022 to bring her back.

Unfortunately for you, EU CE marking is no longer valid, so you have to have a UKCA marking PCA (Post Construction Assessment) done at a cost of £4,000 + VAT (current cost according to CEProof).

Doubly unfortunately, the engine fitted to your boat complies with RCD I standards and UKCA mirrors the EU RCD II standards now, so your engine doesn't (and cannot be made to) comply. This was fine for you to use indefinitely in Europe, but because you are making a new 'import' to the UK, you have to comply with the rules as they apply today.

So now you are in for £4.5K plus c. £13K for a new engine regardless of how shiny and new your old one still looks.

So you save £20K or so in VAT, but you spend £20K in completely pointless paperwork just so you can keep your boat in the UK. Oh, and don't forget that if you ever leave for more than 3 years, you have to pay the (UK) VAT again when you return.

The only tip I can offer is that when you get your UKCA mark, you can simultaneously apply for an updated EU RCDII mark at little extra cost.


This is the plight of someone who didn't manage to bring their boat to the UK before the hard stop of last December during a pandemic when almost no-one could practically do so.

Rather than face all this crap, I just sold my boat and will buy again within Europe.

I don't really see who this helps apart from the anointed ones who hand out the PCA certificates who can charge whatever they like and HMRC.

I can understand your predicament but if you kept your boat in EU you can either pay for a visa or have 90 in any 180 days there.
I sold my boat that was in spain to a guy in Cyprus and diliverd it for him, why don't you sell it there as its deemed to be eu vat paid or keep it as it can stay in the eu with out the hassle of taking it out of the eu every 180 days.

[Clivevon]

As a long term Brexit supporter - yes, OK, may well be dead within 10 years, thank you (some of you remoaners are such charming people) - I can entirely see that leaving the EU is inconvenient in all sorts of ways (many of which could be simply eased if the EU treated the UK in the same way as we treat them).
The fact is, we had a vote, we voted to leave (yes I know that if we had allowed children to vote it wouldn't have happened, neither would it have happened if we had allowed people to vote who left UK years ago to live in EU) & now we have left.
The future is now in our hands. All you people are just collateral damage. Tough.

[RaymondR]

I have a suspicion that when the business people inside the EU realize that their vengeful bureaucrats are pissing off 67 million consumers on their doorstep a lot of the nonsense will disappear.

I would not fire sale the boat just yet.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I have a suspicion that when the business people inside the EU realize that their vengeful bureaucrats are pissing off 67 million consumers on their doorstep a lot of the nonsense will disappear.

Don't overestimate this effect. If it's stuff the British need anyway, the EU-business don't care much. I know from Spanish fruit and vegetable farmers that they don't care much. The costs and efforts are mostly on the customers.

Other businesses who deal rarely with the UK, they just can't be arsed. Sorry, no shipping to the UK. The problem in this case is ironically not the EU but the HMRC.

In the end, as sad as it is for the Brits, nobody really cares and they'll be the ones footing any additional costs. Here in the EU, even in Spain, Brexit isn't a real topic for the locals, only the expats care when suffering from it.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Don't overestimate this effect. If it's stuff the British need anyway, the EU-business don't care much. I know from Spanish fruit and vegetable farmers that they don't care much. The costs and efforts are mostly on the customers.

Other businesses who deal rarely with the UK, they just can't be arsed. Sorry, no shipping to the UK. The problem in this case is ironically not the EU but the HMRC.

In the end, as sad as it is for the Brits, nobody really cares and they'll be the ones footing any additional costs. Here in the EU, even in Spain, Brexit isn't a real topic for the locals, only the expats care when suffering from it.

yup, please come to EU, give us money and promptly go back to your hole. We dont want you here.

Pretty uniform feel across med.

[Asmolian]

Originally Posted by duncan_ellison

Joh.Ghurt - Well that might not be as easy as you think. To achieve UKCA compliance COMPONENTS of the vessel need to be UKCA certified in their own right.

This means that UK shipbuilders can ONLY use radios, electronics, wheels, tankage etc etc which have a UKCA mark.

Already a number of well known suppliers in Europe have said that they will no longer supply to builders in the UK as the market is too small to justify the cost of between £1K and £25K to get components re-certified by a 'notified body' in the UK and add a UKCA mark to their products.

Notwithstanding the fact that the standards to which the items are assessed are EXACTLY the same to the letter, it still has to be re-certified.

Maybe when all have finished throwing their toys, some sanity will prevail.

We, down here in the south, always used to accept the British Standards and anything marked as complying with such standards. Then you lot joined the EU and out the window went everything marked with BS-xyz. This was replaced with the IEC standards which we accepted. We also accept the CE mark. This is done by agreement with our testing standards authority and those in Europe.

If you wish to use something manufactured to a different standard from those accepted by the local standards authority, you apply for permission, and provided it meets - or exceeds - the standards already applied locally, you get a certificate allowing you to sell the product under the particular mark. It is easy. It is called reciprocity. Just like between two yacht clubs or marinas. Hell, if a third world country can get it right, why can't you.

Or is it that then you will have to find something else to complain about?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

yup, please come to EU, give us money and promptly go back to your hole. We dont want you here.

Pretty uniform feel across med.

Its always been like that in holiday resorts.. even UK ones.
Bludi Grockels..

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its always been like that in holiday resorts.. even UK ones.
Bludi Grockels..

yeah but this still has not stopped fantasizing of new world citizens of med vacation on sunset of their lives after they cash in their hyperinflation gains. Unfortunately bodies are bit substandard and cant compete with younger female german tourists.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

yeah but this still has not stopped fantasizing of new world citizens of med vacation on sunset of their lives after they cash in their hyperinflation gains. Unfortunately bodies are bit substandard and cant compete with younger female german tourists.

The Spanish Costas have been the reef of many Brits retirement dreams.. house scams through buildings regulations, that bar in the sun to fun fund the retirement..
I have seen a few of those crash and burn... first six months boundless energy and enthusiasm, next six months 4hr long happy hours, after that come spring the for sale sign goes up and some creative book keeping begins.. its like old boats, there's always another dreamer striding over the horizon...

[Sand crab]

Had to look it up. Grockels is a slightly derogatory term for tourists. In the states we call them Texans.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by Joh.Ghurt

Other businesses who deal rarely with the UK, they just can't be arsed. Sorry, no shipping to the UK. .

Sailors in the EU with US built boats have faced this same issue with US suppliers for years. Too much paper work involved I've been told.