Report on yacht collision in Ireland in 2019 (report on findings)

[B23iL23]

I don't know and it doesn't say who was on board that day so not sure who they are but their home port (Howth) is just 10km from me!.

Racing and/or world voyages doesn't always equal managing situations like this when you are tired and only 2 up. I think the watchkeeper on the yacht wasn't paying attention and the ship also failed to take action soon enough.

It could have been much worse - the last major collision like this and just a couple of miles north left 4 dead on the yacht.

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

does anyone know who these guys on the yacht were?

" They had taken part in many round the world voyages and competitions. "

is that bs . . .or was this like RKJ or someone?

[Pete7]

Well, at least they weren't at work flying airplanes.

Pete

[gpshephe]

Weather?

[steffan]

Originally Posted by Stmurray62

Gosh, at six miles, I would have stopped/slowed down, called tanker ad advised them that I saw them and would come to PORT. Ask them to acknowledge and then proceed.

I had a similar situation with an ore boat, just after dawn, on Superior last week. AIS (receive only for me) confirmed a CPA < 1 NM, so I called them on VHF at 8 NM, advised that I saw them, and even though I was stand on I would alter course to increase CPA. Captain probably thought it was unnecessary, but he thanked me for the call nonetheless.

[gpshephe]

I solo sail. I have AIS and radar. both have alarms. I love radar at night set the range to 24 miles. I've met several folks in my years of sailing that don't have radar.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by gpshephe

Weather?

the report says weather was pretty good - also with good visibility

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

which I think should have been a head-on situation under the Rules contrary to the report's conclusion

i will agree that a near head on green to green is more challanging.

however I will disagree with your statement above - I agree with the report's assessment. I think they got this exactly correct. Neither vessel seems to have meet the criteria of 14b (or c). They both saw only one side light (the ship always saw red on the yacht - the yacht always saw green on the ship but thought that meant its port side) and neither reported seeing masthead ights in line. They both thought it was a crossing (its just the yacht misunderstood which side of the ship it saw). And the ship after looking at its radar was in no doubt about the geometry - that it was a crossing and that they were give way. The yacht had no f*&King clue and did the wrong F&*King thing no matter which rule was in play - steering their bow right into the port side of ship.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

the report says weather was pretty good - also with good visibility

The little harbour Greystones is a short bus trip south of Dublin, about 10 miles. If the historic data shown on this page is correct, then I am doubtful that a Moody 39 was doing 7.9 knots under sail in 12 knots of wind, so there may have been a good northerly tide running perhaps explaining the reported speed of the yacht at 5 knots and 7.9 knots by the Chemical tanker.

HW Howth just to the North of Dublin is at 05:03 hrs some 2.5 hrs after the collision, which would suggest a north going stream.

Pete

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Racing and/or world voyages doesn't always equal managing situations like this when you are tired and only 2 up.

Im curious who they are

'multiple' RTW competitions does usually leave you with a certain amount of experience-based seamanship, which did not seem to come into play here. After 2 rtw's most people manage to get a decent amount of seawater in their veins.

[wingssail]

Reading the report, (including the diagram) and looking at the damage on the starboard aft side of the sailboat, I would guess that the sailboat turned to port and ran directly into the port side of the ship, then was turned by the forward motion of the ship, and passed along the port side of the ship with their starboard hull side being scraped by the ship.

I'd surmise that the watch stander on the yacht was not aware of the proximity of the ship until quite late and turned to port to avoid it, which seems like exactly the wrong thing to do.

Even though the yacht was the stand-on vessel, it apparently failed to stand on.

And, much earlier action on the part of the yacht (turn to starboard) would also have been a safe maneuver. Unfortunately the yacht did neither.

On the ship's part, proper action was taken, if rather late.

What is surprising to me is that this situation, in open waters, developed so late. The yacht was apparently motor sailing at nearly 8 knots, for a 38ft yacht this is rather fast, they should have been on full alert in those conditions. Apparently they were not. In these days they could have had a chart plotter onboard which would have shown their track and would have revealed the last minute turn to port. The report states they did not have that technology. Finally they could have had AIS with a CPA alarm set which would have given them an earlier heads-up. As a "raceboat" they would have been required to have a radar reflector, yet the ship did not see them until quite late, perhaps they did not have a radar reflector. All in all I think the yacht's preparation for going to sea was rather cavalier.

On the ship's part, I do wonder why the first report was a visual? Where was the radar operator? And apparently the ship's AIS was not helpful because the yacht did not have it.

Lots of lessons to be learned here, and these two yachties are quite lucky their turn to port did carry them right across the bow of that ship.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I am doubtful that a Moody 39 was doing 7.9 knots under sail in 12 knots of wind, so there may have been a good northerly tide running perhaps explaining the reported speed of the yacht at 5 knots and 7.9 knots by the Chemical tanker.

Interesting, useful comment . . . . in the back of the report there are some correspondence which note several disagreements about who was doing what speed. A strong tide might square those disagreements.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by wingssail

the ship did not see them until quite late, perhaps they did not have a radar reflector.

Actually . . . . The report notes the Yacht did have radar reflectors - one of the useless tube ones, and a (small) diamond reflector and both were hoisted. It is just yet another demonstration, which has been proven time and time again, that these yachting reflectors don't provide much of a long range target.

[Lodesman]

I'd take the reported speed of the Moody with a grain of salt - no mention of whether or not the radar had automatically tracked the yacht or if it was just hooked by the WK when he looked at the radar. The initial tracking information would be fairly rough, and may very well have said 7.9 kts. That said they were motorsailing before moderate winds that were gusting to 20.

More confusing are some of the comments from the Moody pilots. One suggested the foresail would have blocked the combined lamp on the top of the mast. Made a comment about "aviation colregs" - WTF is that? Seemed to suggest seeing the green light on a steady bearing, but figured "green to green we're good"; even suggested that's normal in aviation - again WTF?

Noted in the report, but fairly nonchalant that the Moody was lit as a sailing vessel, when it should have been lit as a PDV. The masthead light would have at least doubled the nominal range of visibility. Not doing themselves any favours by running under the sailing lights.

[jmschmidt]

Simple. Outlaw masthead running lights on all boats especially sail boats.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

More confusing are some of the comments from the Moody pilots. One suggested the foresail would have blocked the combined lamp on the top of the mast. Made a comment about "aviation colregs" - WTF is that? Seemed to suggest seeing the green light on a steady bearing, but figured "green to green we're good"; even suggested that's normal in aviation - again WTF?

Agree, I also found it hard to follow their corrections in the responses. My read is that they reported seeing the green of the ship at about 1 o'clock (relative bearing), using the sail as a reference as they would have been on port tack with the sail "filling to starboard" in their words.

I took the foresail blocking comment as possibly a reference to the case of "red over green" lights based on the "wouldn't be all-round visible", but the relevance of that seems missing. Perhaps it refered to the white masthead light?

The yacht seeing the other ship's green on their starboard boat would make a bit more sense as to why they might have thought they were safe. The geometry of the tracks suggests that this only makes sense if they were much closer to the other ship than either expected, the ship having already crossed their bow and the collision happening from crossing back. Their original report indicates seeing the ship's green change to red before the collision.

Having the actual GPX tracks from both vessels would have made things much simpler..