Dismasted at Sea! Amazing video!

[MccNeo]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Wow... amazing to capture the exact moment of failure on video. Did they determine what caused the break? Conditions were far from harsh, and it didn't appear they were over-clothed. I didn't see a shroud or stay go first, but I might have missed it.

Failed chainplate.

[mlspadaro]

I wouldn't have expected that having a foot or so of mast in the water would have slowed their speed through the water so much! I can see it throwing off the steering a bit but is it really so much drag to bring you down to one knot of speed? Unless they could only make 3 or 4 knots to begin with.

[Icarus]

In hindsight we all have 20/20 vision..I think they did well.
Good to see no one got hurt

[Harmen]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Ain't that the truth.

I made my own chainplates. Purchased a 6m length of 316L from a well known reputable supplier. They were out of stock and ordered in new stock from the distributor (also well known).

I took it home and noticed the manufacturing/distributor code sticker was still attached. The code number was many digits long but contained the numerals 304 in the middle of it. The invoice and delivery paperwork all showed the material to be 316L.

I was curious enough to ask the supplier to tell me what the manufacturing code meant - he didn't know but on checking with the distributor, it was revealed the material was actually 304.

They made all the usual excuses and replaced it. I could not determine if it was a honest mistake or not but I did ask for a signed certificate of conformance (CoC) to be supplied with the replacement. They told me the CoC would normally incur an extra charge but waived it in this instance.

Can one be too careful with chainplates, especially hidden ones? I don't think so.

In fact I strongly dislike hidden chainplates but I have to accept there are plenty out there.

There are commercial test kits available for 304 vs 316L such as "Inox Test", or "Decapoli" or "Avesta 960"
A simple test can be do with sulfuric acid (H2SO4) as follows:
304 will be attacked quickly and form green crystals
316L will be attcked rather slowly and stain brownish
Testing with hydrochloric acid (HCl):
304 will see rapid attack and gas production
316L will only produce a very slow reaction.
The main difference between the two alloys is the molybdenum content.

Hope this helps. Retired metallurgist.....

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Harmen

There are commercial test kits available for 304 vs 316L such as "Inox Test", or "Decapoli" or "Avesta 960"
A simple test can be do with sulfuric acid (H2SO4) as follows:
304 will be attacked quickly and form green crystals
316L will be attcked rather slowly and stain brownish
Testing with hydrochloric acid (HCl):
304 will see rapid attack and gas production
316L will only produce a very slow reaction.
The main difference between the two alloys is the molybdenum content.

Hope this helps. Retired metallurgist.....

How very useful!!!

If this works well in the hands of an amateur, it is really helpful to us out in the woop woop and wondering about our s/s.

Thanks very much.

Can't wait to try this out!

Jim

[Carl-T705]

Well. It looks like an absolutely beautiful day for a dismasting, calm seas , daylight hours, no taking on water, no crew injuries, 30 Miles offshore, half the mast still up.... Yeah that's the "scariest day of my life" that I want have myself. Honestly , I couldn't watch the whole video, kind of boring.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Harmen

There are commercial test kits available for 304 vs 316L such as "Inox Test", or "Decapoli" or "Avesta 960"
A simple test can be do with sulfuric acid (H2SO4) as follows:
304 will be attacked quickly and form green crystals
316L will be attcked rather slowly and stain brownish
Testing with hydrochloric acid (HCl):
304 will see rapid attack and gas production
316L will only produce a very slow reaction.
The main difference between the two alloys is the molybdenum content.

Hope this helps. Retired metallurgist.....

It helps a lot - great information; can't wait to try it!

I am going assume the concentration for the HCl should be 33% (or less). Yes / No ???

What about for the H2SO4?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Note to self...

Add cordless angle grinder to list of safety items owners must provide for delivery of their boat...

Yep, that will inspire confidence.

[Breeze Dreamer]

TE=chrisr;3416645]interesting thought

personally, when i screw up i'm very keen to hear & learn what i should have done

in this case i don't see much screwed up. i would have done more to get rid of the rig rather than drag it through the water (at 1 knot per hour ) but thats all

cheers,

(ps : best part of the video is abt 33-36 secs in...)[/QUOTE]


That was scripted for sure ha ha!


Your best bet is to keep the rig, if possible, and salvage anything. I would definitely get a winch on it and get it out of water and try get the sails of it quickly, if possible and safe to do so...sorry to repeat if someone has already said this.


I've been demasted once, and we had a manual hack saw that made things possible and no batteries. For everyone's info it was due to a gung-ho skip that refused to reef, so we were quite happy about it and didn't crew for him again.



As in life and many sports, there are gung-ho types that don't know what they don't know. Learning best practice helps you identify those people quickly and I find it a great risk management tool.

[ozzieKochie]

To add my views... The boat in question appears to be a Passport 42 / Formosa or Slocum 43. I am a co-owner of a Passport 42 and the chain plates are not easily accessible- it has been one of my biggest concerns as we will have to come very close to destroying the inside joinery in the chain plate embedded locations to remove and replace. I always check the base of the chain plates, anything that looks like an issue gets inspected...

Also when we do bite the bullet and eventually replace the chain plates, I would consider Titanium or Superduplex stainless (2507) and even high moly steels like 654SMO, as opposed to 316L: working in the desalination industry 316L doesn’t last if exposed to salt water. Not a year.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by ozzieKochie

To add my views... The boat in question appears to be a Passport 42 / Formosa or Slocum 43. I am a co-owner of a Passport 42 and the chain plates are not easily accessible- it has been one of my biggest concerns as we will have to come very close to destroying the inside joinery in the chain plate embedded locations to remove and replace. I always check the base of the chain plates, anything that looks like an issue gets inspected...

.......

I don't know your Passport 42 however I have seen a few examples on other boats where inaccessible internal chainplates have been left in situ (unused) while new external chainplates are fitted very close by.

FWIW.

[donradcliffe]

If I had to replace my buried chainplates, I would go for titanium.

In addition to stress corrosion cracking, SS has a cyclic fatigue limit. I hit that limit on my Bene 456 on the interior SS shroud tie rods (not exposed to salt water) after sailing around the world. Fortunately, I had a talk with a sistership owner in Antigua whose tie rod had failed, and when I inspected mine, one of them had started to crack.

[ozzieKochie]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I don't know your Passport 42 however I have seen a few examples on other boats where inaccessible internal chainplates have been left in situ (unused) while new external chainplates are fitted very close by.

FWIW.

Yes I have been warming to that idea. Originally didnt like the aesthetic side of it, but safety overrules beauty everytime.

Titanium would be the way to go

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ozzieKochie

Yes I have been warming to that idea. Originally didnt like the aesthetic side of it, but safety overrules beauty everytime.

Titanium would be the way to go

Well... if you like shiny, get them chrome plated..

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by requiem

Why not a Hackzall? Would seem to avoid many of the issues you mentioned, just need to get the proper blades. Also useful for impromptu remodeling.

Much slower in my experience, and zip disks cut through any metal I've met whereas s__y (and I don't mean "salty") made-wherever Sawzall blades often seem to last about five seconds and then go dull. You won't want to find out the blades you bought won't cut what you want to cut just at the moment you need it cut in seconds flat.