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sososails · 28-02-2022, 08:53

WANTED: Ready to buy our new home!

We are looking for an aluminium hull, centreboard, 3-4 cabin sailboat to circumnavigate and explore high latitudes. Most importantly, headroom needs to be at least 6'4" / 195cm. Expecting to put in sweat equity to make it our own and happy to take on a refit.

Preferably it has an aft cabin, center cockpit with forward helm, and sugar scoop. Amazing, if it is in North America including Carribbean, or Europe, but we are willing to travel. Cutter, sloop, ketch – all welcome.

We have been religiously following the listings on the usual sites for years now. We loved Ovni (especially 56 and 58), Meta, Garcia, Van de Stadt, Alumarine, etc. but haven't been able to find a serious candidate (or weren't ready yet when they were for sale). Now that we are actively looking to buy, we got inspired by another post in this community to try to find a seller here.

Very much appreciate any leads, and we are happy to negotiate and make a cash offer!

So & Rob
currently in Pittsburgh, PA
4123101520

Muaddib1116 · 28-02-2022, 09:50

That's a pretty hard to find requirement list. Good luck with the search.

Manateeman · 28-02-2022, 14:38

Under no circumstances would we build or own a centerboard for high latitude sailing. Board jammed up or down seriously risks the vessel.
We spent a lot more money for twin keels because of this risk.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew .

dannc · 28-02-2022, 14:54

Do you really mean a center board or would having a boat with a keel that moves up and down to reduce draft be acceptable?

There are lifting keels, which is an overloaded phrase because some lifting keels move into the boat to reduce draft, while some keels provide lift but do not move, and then there are keels that both move and provide lift. Yes that is confusing.

There are also boats with swing keels that swing up into the boat to reduce draft, but also provide lift.

Soooo, if your primary requirement is to have a boat with a keel that moves to reduce draft, your options should include centerboards, swing keels, and lifting keels.

https://www.kmy.nl/ builds the Bestevaer sail boats which can have lifting or swing keels. They have also built an Ed Joy Good Hope 56 which has a swing keel. The boats are built in AL.

Later,
Dan

sososails · 01-03-2022, 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Under no circumstances would we build or own a centerboard for high latitude sailing. Board jammed up or down seriously risks the vessel.
We spent a lot more money for twin keels because of this risk.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew .

Thanks Mark and your manatee crew

Appreciate the input. I admit twin keels are an option for us as well. However, we love the increased cruising options of an integral centreboard/lifting keel. The safety factor of tucking away in shallow draft, as well as the adjustments for performance (being able to avoid broaching by retracting) make it very attractive to us.

Manateeman · 01-03-2022, 09:03

We are 60’ and our draft is 6’...which includes a lot of frozen pizza.
Ted Brewer did our design and the keels were done by a friend who designs fighter aircraft. There are significant advantages to twin keels in large seas.
Lots written about this. Maybe you will find a uncompleted project that someone walked away from...one never knows.
Happy trails to you.
Mark

sososails · 01-03-2022, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannc

Do you really mean a center board or would having a boat with a keel that moves up and down to reduce draft be acceptable?
...
Soooo, if your primary requirement is to have a boat with a keel that moves to reduce draft, your options should include centerboards, swing keels, and lifting keels.

Dan, thanks for lining this out. Indeed, it seems there is a level of confusion and often disagreement, I have found that the definitions bleed into each other and sometimes are used interchangeably. I agree with you in that we are considering boats with adjustable keel to reduce draft, including all three options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannc

https://www.kmy.nl/ builds the Bestevaer sail boats which can have lifting or swing keels. They have also built an Ed Joy Good Hope 56 which has a swing keel. The boats are built in AL.

I had come across the Good Hope 56 when researching a South African builder about another boat before, and was immediately in awe. What an absolute unit. Thanks for this suggestion, as I had not looked into Bestevaers much yet. It seems, they have only been built since the mid 2000s and (judging by one current listing of a 56 for $900K) are unfortunately out of our budget.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Have a great day

Muaddib1116 · 01-03-2022, 11:20

Now that you've brought it up, what is your budget? I've been looking at/for boats that meet most of your list for a few years now, and there are no secret hidden gems that can be had for cheap.

adjo · 01-03-2022, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Under no circumstances would we build or own a centerboard for high latitude sailing. Board jammed up or down seriously risks the vessel.
We spent a lot more money for twin keels because of this risk.
Captain Mark and his manatee crew .

Yes, centreboards can jam but if correctly designed/built they shouldn't.

In 35 years of sailing with our ballasted dagger board (~1000kg) it has never shown any tendency to jam - up or down - despite having occasionally made contact with the bottom at speed.

What it does that is really valuable is allow us to move the CLR.
The shallow draft option is very much a secondary advantage.

The board on our boat is positioned relatively far forward and when sailing upwind it provides good lateral resistance and helps prevent the boat from being pushed to leeward by wave action. As we ease the sheets we can raise the board and the CLR moves aft which significantly reduces any tendency to broach when running fast downwind. It may also reduce the 'pendulum effect' and thus reduce rolling as the ballasted portion of the board is withdrawn into the hull.

2.4m draft with the board down - 1.2m with it up.

There are always going to be pros and cons but the integral centerboard concept has a lot going for it.

sososails · 01-03-2022, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

... I've been looking at/for boats that meet most of your list for a few years now, and there are no secret hidden gems that can be had for cheap.

Thanks for pointing this out. Same here, we have been looking for years. It has been mostly for (market) research purposes, but I can't complain about the insight it provided into what to expect and what a good deal looks like. Unfortunately, we missed out on some great finds. The good ones change hands so very quickly. However, that means they do come up!

As for the budget, it is negotiable depending on the boat and the state it is in. But we are looking at somewhat older models from 90s because we would rather upgrade what we need, than to pay for extras we don't want.

Have you had some close candidates in your years of search?

Muaddib1116 · 01-03-2022, 15:41

The hardest find on your list is the center cockpit with forward helm. I assume by this you mean a cockpit layout like the Amel's have. There are definitely some boats out there like this, but it's one more oddity that narrows down your list. The other big one being an aluminum lifting keel. When you say you want an aft cabin, do you just mean you want cabins in the aft end of the boat? or are you specifically meaning a large aft master cabin with centerline berth? Many aluminum lifting keel boats have aft cockpits with two aft cabins in the quarterberth position. The other big challenge is the relative dearth of aluminum sailboats in the US, especially the east coast.

There is a lifting keel custom in Virginia that may or may not still be on the market. The price is up there though.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/66296

If you're looking for aluminum on a budget, there's this boat. It's not a lifting keel, but it has a really reasonable draft. It's gonna need some love.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...utter-7965158/

Here's the cheapest lifting keel I've found. It's the type where the keel pivots up, but stays below the hull.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/199...-keel-5433295/

In the past there's usually been some Koopmans designs for sale, but the ones above 45ft in a reasonable price range have all disappeared.

Constellation49 · 01-03-2022, 16:20

My wife and I started building our pivoting centerboard yacht in 2016 completion date is 2026. We based it off one of the more familiar French designed yachts. It’s been a struggle and a joy all in one.

We also found it hard to locate the exact boat we wanted. Since we had time until our set sail date we decided to build.

Muaddib1116 · 01-03-2022, 16:49

Nice, looks very borealish. Who's building it? Did you work with a naval architect?

Muaddib1116 · 01-03-2022, 17:37

https://www.ayc-yachtbroker.com/chatam-60-0

I forgot about this one. This is basically exactly what you want sososails. I'd try to modify that hard dodger bulkhead so that it could be disassembled and stowed for warmer climates.