Wire too big for Victron charge controller

[pjShap]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have tested many to destruction: the cable will rip out the connector rather than the connector coming out. It is the same type of connector as for Ethernet and with the old telephones there were billions in use.

That's the modern telephone connector. Old phones used a 4-prong connector. And I agree, the current jack is quite a robust connector, UNLESS the locking tab breaks off as sometimes happens.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well, no they won’t because RJ-12 is a proven connector type. If it falls out for you then it means it wasn’t fully inserted or somehow the connector is damaged so that the locking tab doesn’t function.

I have tested many to destruction: the cable will rip out the connector rather than the connector coming out. It is the same type of connector as for Ethernet and with the old telephones there were billions in use.

As you stated, an RJ-12 or RJ-45 terminal does indeed hold very well if the tab is in good condition. However that tab is pretty easy to damage when it is not attached to anything. Catching a tab on something can bend and weaken it or even break it. Once a tab has been pulled up, just pushing it back in place doesn't work as the locking force is weakened. The only solution is to replace either the connector or the entire cable, but how many people do that? I do, when I get around to it, because I have the proper crimping tool and connectors for both stranded and solid conductors, shielded or un-shielded. I'd bet that Jedi is similarly prepared. I'd recommend to freshalaska to either replace the connector or cable, as this won't happen to a connector in good condition.

Greg

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So here the positive conductor was wired okay, but the step down in the negative conductor creates two unnecessary crimp connections. Here’s my critique on this install:

1. Mounted on flammable surface isn’t allowed.
2. No crimped ferrules used at the Victron terminals.
3. Step down terminal shouldn’t have been used. It is now a candidate for high resistance. Simply remove strands from the 1 AWG cable until it fits the Victron terminal and crimp those in a ferrule.

Also, the screw terminals at the Victron must be very tight (can’t tell from picture)

1. Even manufacturer CE Norm approved screw down the MPPT and disconnect switches inside wooden cupboards or on wooden boards glued with sikaflex or 3M to hull or bulkheads. You cannot avoid that in a fibreglass vessel.
2. Victron tells you no ferrules on their MPPT or DC2DC, if you look at their demo videos you find nowhere ferrules on the cables
3. Easiest way is place a disconnect double pole breaker close to MPPT that can take bigger cables, i use the 40A or 60A for the house in AC rating (super cheap around 15Euro) , as its just a disconnect switch and used to downsize the cable. Input the big diameter, output 15cm 16sqmm into MPPT or DC2DC. The terminals ar so close thats simply impossible or with big danger to wg use 25qmm and cut strands down. Double pole or even 2 single close to MPPT solve that by taking the big diameter and output perfect fitting 16sqmm cable to MPPT

[freshalaska]

The straight connector not the 45 degree angle one gets pushed to the side and releases. Could be a product manufacturing defect can happen you know. Everything fails it’s just how often. Doesn’t matter how many times you tested it you just didn’t test it enough times. Was it from the same manufacturing bunch as mine where again I think not. Don’t be so quick to point out someone is wrong if you don’t really don’t know. I appreciate your experience but you know very well things fail or don’t always work as designed.

[freshalaska]

Thank you CarinaPDX yours has been a much more constructive response.
I will replace the comm cables as you suggested.
I’m wondering if proving someone wrong makes you smarter?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by freshalaska

Thank you CarinaPDX yours has been a much more constructive response.
I will replace the comm cables as you suggested.
I’m wondering if proving someone wrong makes you smarter?

There is no need to prove wrong or not. The modular jacks are solid connectors, it’s just a fact. Yes, they can be easily damaged, there is nothing to get upset about when you damaged them but don’t blame Victron or the connector for that. I have damaged things, even blew up a mppt controller once. Live and learn, don’t attack me for pointing out modular jacks have a secure locking tab.

So to prevent damaging the tab during installation, it is best to wrap some electrical tape around it when pulling the cable. You quickly learn to do that even when cables have a protective over-mold protecting the tab and I have often seen the tab ripped out of that as well.

Also, put some dielectric grease on the connector contacts before inserting it. I often use a small brush to coat the contacts in the socket as well.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

1. Even manufacturer CE Norm approved screw down the MPPT and disconnect switches inside wooden cupboards or on wooden boards glued with sikaflex or 3M to hull or bulkheads. You cannot avoid that in a fibreglass vessel.
2. Victron tells you no ferrules on their MPPT or DC2DC, if you look at their demo videos you find nowhere ferrules on the cables
3. Easiest way is place a disconnect double pole breaker close to MPPT that can take bigger cables, i use the 40A or 60A for the house in AC rating (super cheap around 15Euro) , as its just a disconnect switch and used to downsize the cable. Input the big diameter, output 15cm 16sqmm into MPPT or DC2DC. The terminals ar so close thats simply impossible or with big danger to wg use 25qmm and cut strands down. Double pole or even 2 single close to MPPT solve that by taking the big diameter and output perfect fitting 16sqmm cable to MPPT

You write these things as if you know but you don’t. First of all, Victron specifically notes to mount this on a non flammable surface, see attachment. Now you can answer that you are right and not only me but also Victron is wrong

About the screw terminals: the terminals used by Victron have a metal tab between the screw and the inserted wire. This means that a ferrule is not a requirement as for the terminals without that tab, the screw will cut through the strands. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t use ferrules! With the fine stranded marine wire, the risk of stray strands shorting out contacts is very high and the #2 failure I encounter. The #1 failure is high resistance from not being tightened enough.
Victron does recommend the use of ferrules, just check their community forum or Facebook group. Every EE will recommend them.

Thinning the cable is not impossible because every professional installer does that. Normally an insulated crimped ferrule will cover the cut strands but if not, more insulation is removed and a heatshrink cover added to make room. I often switch to the ferrules without the plastic cover when more room is needed (or cut the plastic off)

Also attached a picture of a professional installation. It’s just a little extra in materials and time to get it right and for marine installations it simply requires that extra detail to make it a durable installation.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by pjShap

That's the modern telephone connector. Old phones used a 4-prong connector. And I agree, the current jack is quite a robust connector, UNLESS the locking tab breaks off as sometimes happens.

It is amazing how someone who doesn’t know what modular jacks on telephones look like post about what they look like

[freshalaska]

I’ll I can say Jedi is the terminals I got from Victron didn’t lock in the way they where supposed to, I noticed it right away but still thought they should work but they kept coming loose. You never heard of someone returning something because it was damaged. Just ask Amazon, people return things all the time because they are damaged sometimes it happens in shipping sometimes straight from the factory. Why wouldn’t I blame Victron it had their name on it. You know Jedi you aren’t in a position to say something works if you weren’t present to see it fail. Saying someone is wrong doesn’t make it so however experienced or knowledgeable you are.

[freshalaska]

Hi Jedi,
You stated you tested many of these BJ-12 connectors to destruction. How is that, what was is your job? Most people don’t have time to test something many times to destruction. You were involved in quality control business somehow.

[Statistical]

I just wish Victron made a smart charge controller with bolt terminals for using a lug. When Victron started this they made pretty small controllers their largest controllers are now 100A on the output side. 100A is a lot to be pushing through a screw terminal.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by freshalaska

Hi Jedi,
You stated you tested many of these BJ-12 connectors to destruction. How is that, what was is your job? Most people don’t have time to test something many times to destruction. You were involved in quality control business somehow.

I was (owned) one of the early Internet Service Providers, in the time of modems. We had thousands of these connections and tested the available crimp tools, which included pulling the cord while it was plugged into a socket until something broke.

Sometimes the locking tab fails to engage because the tab doesn’t have enough “spring”. We fixed that by heating it up a little with a heat gun, then lifting the tab while letting it cool down.

Also, Ethernet uses 8-conductor RJ45 modular jacks and of course we had even more of those. In locations without air conditioning, we did observe corrosion at the contacts, which was 100% fixed by using dielectric grease.