Solar vs wind vs hydro

[bergius]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

It was for these very reasons I discounted the Flinsail. But the same company now does very useful Flinrail guardrail mounted panels that can be kept up while sailing in up to 25kn apparent. If I was going to add solar after maxing out permanent mounting space, these are what I would add. 120W each and I have space for 10 of them when stationary, 4 when in motion. That is serious solar for a monohull.

I got to play with a FLINrail at the Berlin boat show last fall. It is a nicely made product. We were on the fence with it for quite a while, but decided that we want fixed panels to complement the FLINsails we have.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

Maybe I’ll start with the sink shower idea and try it all out. One advantage I can see with it is the ability to test the water directly for comfort. Another is the easier mixing process: Pour in kettle, turn on tap, watch temp gauge, pull plug, shower. A final advantage is knowing exactly how much water you have to shower with; no running out while still covered in suds. The idea does have merits.

Next time I’m on the boat I’ll take a picture of the sink and post it here. I’ll also measure the volume. From memory I think it must be about 8l.
.

This is exactly what I posted about a page or 2 back except we use a 5 gallon plastic bucket. When not used used the pump and hose resides coiled up on the bucket under some smaller containers.

We can both shower comfortably, including wash hair, with about 3 gallons (11 liters?) of water - total, not per.

[Na Mara]

Originally Posted by hpeer

This is exactly what I posted about a page or 2 back except we use a 5 gallon plastic bucket. When not used used the pump and hose resides coiled up on the bucket under some smaller containers.

We can both shower comfortably, including wash hair, with about 3 gallons (11 liters?) of water - total, not per.

Sorry about that. It took me a bit to grasp the concept. It being so new to me and all. Now I’ve got the idea, it all seems so obvious that I feel a bit of an idiot for not seeing it sooner. It’s useful info that 6liters per person should be enough for boat showering (wet down, sud up, rinse off). That will definitely work with my sink and my kettle. I’ll just refill for each customer.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

Maybe I’ll start with the sink shower idea and try it all out. One advantage I can see with it is the ability to test the water directly for comfort. Another is the easier mixing process: Pour in kettle, turn on tap, watch temp gauge, pull plug, shower. A final advantage is knowing exactly how much water you have to shower with; no running out while still covered in suds. The idea does have merits.

A tank with a large opening or even an open top (like a laundry tub) is good.

As you say, you can instantly see how much shower water you have left.

It is also helpful to pump, or recycle some water from the shower rose back into the tank before you start the shower. This way the cold water sitting in the pipe and pump is exchanged for water of the correct temperature and the shower is perfect from the first drop. I did say I was fussy . A tank with a large opening near the shower rose makes this easier.

[Na Mara]

I could get that effect noelex by having the first blast of water from the shower directed into the sink, to charge the system so to speak.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

I could get that effect noelex by having the first blast of water from the shower directed into the sink, to charge the system so to speak.

That is the idea, providing the sink is used as the “tank” housing the warm water, otherwise you are wasting fresh water and some heat (as the water will not instantly switch from cold to perfect).

Granted, if simply disposing of the initial water that is too cold the loss is not much as with this system the pipe run will be short, but efficiency both in the water and power consumed is the goal, providing this can be achieved with no or little loss of convenience or functionality.

So recycling the initial cold water by directing it back into the source tank is the best solution.

[hpeer]

NaMara
Please no apologies, if anything I should apologize for not being more clear.

These are ideas we have to work through, and that takes a bit.

If I followed your example I would be apologizing all over the place, real dunder- head at times! LOL

[lifeofreilly57]

The most bang for the buck is solar, we carry 1000 watts of panels, but it's a bigger boat with an arch. Solar works at anchor and at sea.
Wind is good, but usually if you are anchored in a protected bay the wind won't provide a lot of help, on the other hand, even if not running at optimum the wind generator will work overnight, where even a little help will be appreciated.
, and it will work while underway.
Hydro has the lowest return for the dollar, but every little bit helps.
Our boat has fairly reasonable power consumption, with 1000 watts of solar even cloudy days get the bank full. Just refridgeration, all LED lighting, a 3000 watt inverter, and diesel forced hot air heater, which we run sparingly.
Only after a week or so of cloud cover do we need to run the generator to charge, even then the inverter charger charges at 80 amps, so it goes quickly.

[singlespeed]

Hydro gives you the least bang for your buck, unless you spend most of your time underway. Depending on where you do or intend to do your boating, solar or wind generation or a combination makes more sense. Solar has the least maintenance and most wind generator maintenance pain is the need to bring the generator on it's mast down to deck level to work on it. Location of the equipment is also important for actual efficiency underway, which is why a combination of solar and wind works better. A stern mounted wind generator that is in the lee side of the main going to weather or on a close reach is likely not to generate much or any power in the turbulent air. Solar panels in the shadow of a main sail or on a heeling lee side that is not facing the sun will produce substantially less power.

[bergius]

Originally Posted by singlespeed

Solar panels in the shadow of a main sail or on a heeling lee side that is not facing the sun will produce substantially less power.

Yup. Like most sailboats (I guess), the worst situation with solar is when we have the bow facing south. When you're sailing that way there is little you can do, the mast and the rigging is shading at least some of the panels.

Sometimes we've anchored with two anchors to hold the boat in a better orientation for the panels than a wind from the south would naturally give.

[bergius]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

For my money I think option 2 is better visually and also less likely to get dinged in a marina, particularly where we are with tall pilings.

Indeed, that’s what we went with. The solar arch is simply not wide enough for three panels. The panels on the arch are currently wired in parallel, but I’m still considering to give them both their own MPPT.





Probably going anchoring this week to try them out now that the lake isn’t frozen any longer.

[Pete7]

Looks good Is the panel in front of the sprayhood able to be moved around the yacht to face the sun whilst at anchor?

Pete

[bergius]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Looks good Is the panel in front of the sprayhood able to be moved around the yacht to face the sun whilst at anchor?

No, it is fixed. But we have the FLINsails that we deploy when anchored.



We ended up with one extra set of NOA panel holders, and so might try to install the old 60W panel on the pushpit. We removed the old boarding ladder recently in favour of side ladder, so there might be space.

But even if we don’t do that, we’re now up to 660W of solar. 360W fixed, up from 210W previously.

[bergius]

Originally Posted by Pete7

However, one of your fellow countrymen fitted an alternative to the Watt and Sea hydro and produced an YT video about it. 5A at 12v whilst travelling at 5 knots isn't too bad. Whether its worth the E1800 price tag is debatable. https://sailnsea.1a-shops.eu/ Interesting if you were doing long passages, otherwise its solar.

Thanks for the suggestion! We actually ended up installing one of these right underneath our windvane.



Did a quick test run this week, with some production numbers:



Here's a blog post about the whole project: https://lille-oe.de/2023-04-14/

[Na Mara]

If the scale to the left is both knots and amps then that doesn't look like fantastic performance from the hydro generator. Is your system clever enough to work out the average wattage over the trip? I would be interested to know as I really like the idea of the sailing gen, particularly its cost and the ease of launch and recovery.

For my application I would have to confirm that the unit produces reasonable power at 6 knots and that the unit could charge LFP batteries. The charging voltage seems fine as that is easily adjustable with the charge controller here, but there would need to be a means of shutting it down from a signal from the BMS.