Questions for Nigel Calder

[Boat How To Inc]

Hello everyone,


Nigel Calder and I are meeting in Hamburg next week to record a new season of our Ask-the-Expert series on YouTube.
If you have any questions about Marine Electrical systems that you would like us to discuss, please write it here. We can't promise that we get to answer every single one of them, but with a bit of luck you'll soon find a video about it on our channel. (Of course we will anonymize the questions and won't mention any names.)


Thanks a lot and stay tuned!


Jan from BoatHowTo

[chris mac]

A common question here, and one I will be needing knowledge of next year when I upgrade my batteries...
What is the best way to hook my existing alternators to my new lifepo4 drop in batteries. In my case, alternators are stock, internal regulated 60 amp units.
Thanks, and I hope the videos go well, Nigel Calder has been a great help and knowledge base for me. Doing a 2 day course with him in Annapolis was the highlight of the boat show!

[TBW]

Batteries:
AGM vs Lithium
My insurance company said if I installed lithium in my trawler or Picnic Boat, I would be limited to one million total coverage for boat and liability together. When i asked Hinckley to replace old lifelines with Lithium (Battleborn) they said no. I could do it but they would not. The insurance company is Markel. I have used them for 15 years. There was a rather complicated claim a few years ago. They never hesitated or missed a beat so I have to listen to them. The runaway fire thing I guess.
Another battery topic is Renogy versus Lifeline AGMs. Both are made in America but Lifeline are twice as much. Must be a reason. I will need six next year and was planning to go with lithium but since that is out the window will stick with Lifeline.
TW

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by TBW

Batteries:
AGM vs Lithium
My insurance company said if I installed lithium in my trawler or Picnic Boat, I would be limited to one million total coverage for boat and liability together. When i asked Hinckley to replace old lifelines with Lithium (Battleborn) they said no. I could do it but they would not. The insurance company is Markel. I have used them for 15 years. There was a rather complicated claim a few years ago. They never hesitated or missed a beat so I have to listen to them. The runaway fire thing I guess.
Another battery topic is Renogy versus Lifeline AGMs. Both are made in America but Lifeline are twice as much. Must be a reason. I will need six next year and was planning to go with lithium but since that is out the window will stick with Lifeline.
TW

I would dump Markel and get LFP batteries.

[Pete7]

Nigel is a prominent member of ABYC.

First question. Why does ABYC recommend that FLA and LFP not be connected together in a hybrid system and what evidence what presented to ABYC to show this could be a dangerous practise.

There query is because many of us are now using a combined FLA and LFP domestic system and have done for several years because it has some real advantages.

Second question. Will ABYC come out with a statement that LifePO4 is perfectly safe and make the statement freely available to everyone, bot just behind a paywall. If you want people to adopt the standard, it needs to be acceptable. The ABYC does have influence across the world, the standards that ABYC recommend really need to be easily accessed.

Pete

[wefleenor]

Does he have an elegant way to have the starting FLA system step in for the LFP to support critical navigation systems should the LFP system cut itself out?

[Bowdrie]

I would like to ask him why he continues to parrot the ABYC stance on AC/DC interface/bonding as if it's the one-and-only path and must be adhered to.
That stuff was from what, 50 years ago, maybe longer?
We now have better ways to protect people from shock and boats from stray current corrosion.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

I would like to ask him why he continues to parrot the ABYC stance on AC/DC interface/bonding as if it's the one-and-only path and must be adhered to.
That stuff was from what, 50 years ago, maybe longer?
We now have better ways to protect people from shock and boats from stray current corrosion.

Not sure if you have seen this, might answer the question, or at least give some back ground and how slowly the US and European ideas are merging, or of course might not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUZw...nnel=BoatHowTo

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by TBW

Batteries:
AGM vs Lithium
My insurance company said if I installed lithium in my trawler or Picnic Boat, I would be limited to one million total coverage for boat and liability together. When i asked Hinckley to replace old lifelines with Lithium (Battleborn) they said no. I could do it but they would not. The insurance company is Markel. I have used them for 15 years. There was a rather complicated claim a few years ago. They never hesitated or missed a beat so I have to listen to them…
TW

I had cover with Markel for 10 years. For several reasons unrelated to LiFe batteries, I now cover with American Modern Insurance Group [AMIG; AAA ratings].

Back to your topic of ‘lithium’ batteries for the boat, I am exploring making that change within the next year. Before moving ahead too far, I inquired of my insurance broker regarding same [specifically about installing commercially available LiFePo4 batteries.] Following is the response I just received a few days ago:

Hi Bill,

Here are answers to your questions:

1) AMIG does not have any specifications/guidelines/exclusions regarding battery type. As long as whatever battery you have or you get is installed to meet fire/safety guidelines for that variety, then you are fine with any kind.
…

I am moving forward with the design of our future house bank…


FWIW

Cheers, Bill

PS: Cover includes 3 independent US$1M liability coverages as well as a healthy hull value.

[CarlF]

It would be better to replace your alternator with larger, externally regulated alternators. A 60 amp alternator puts out 30 amps when hot. A very slow way to charge.

Internally regulated alternators typically lack a temperature sensor and will fairly quickly overheat when hooked to a large LFP house bank. They also lack the precise voltage regulation which could cause a BMS shutdown.

A popular solution is to have the alternator charge the start battery and then use a DC-DC charger rated at about 50% of the alternator output to charge the LFP bank.

Finally, BMS shutdowns are not a big worry on properly configured systems. I’ve never had one in three years. To minimize the risk, I don’t charge to 100% but go to float at 14.1v - far below the voltage that would upset the BMS. This is about 95% full.

[swiz2000]

looking to change my house bank to 800amp lithium, but keep my starters as agm. I have attached a proposed flow diagram , my main concern is the alternator ability, i assume the dc/dc to the engine start is correct? should the wind gens be on a dc/dc? The reason for the large house is for a future 5000btu 12 volt ac unit. Thanks for any input