Lithium Batteries and Salt Water Exposure

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Interesting. But not overly relevant to this forum. Maybe an electric scooter, or a torquedo. The largest lithium battery with a risk of thermal runaway on most boats is usually a cordless drill or maybe a laptop.

Lets get with the times /

Off a boatUS article -As many boat owners know, lithium batteries on sailboats have become increasingly popular in recent years. A big reason for this is their higher energy capacity, lighter weight, and longer lifespan compared to other traditional batteries, such as lead acid.

[sailorboy1]

don't really know what that has to do with the quoted comment, other than someone doesn't appear to understand there are differences in different types of lithium batteries

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Sailor647

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/hu...ooded-electric

"Saltwater exposure can trigger combustion in lithium-ion batteries. If possible, transfer your vehicle to higher ground," the post continued.

Hmmm....

Here we go again!

ABYC, for those who’ve been sleep’n, have found and published that LiFePo lithium batteries are approved for boats. They tried like heck to make them catch fire, unsuccessfully, including sea water. This leads the way for aware insurers to underwrite boats with properly installed lithium banks. There are in fact large numbers of Caribbean cruisers where we live on Roxy who have switched to LiFePo banks and we are insured. Ours have been a paradigm improvement to life abroad.

The same is not true regarding the high density packs such as in bikes, scooters, E-outboards, surfboards. There have been a significant number of fires resulting on boats from these devices. I have not been able to find reported incidents with Torqueedo. They may have better technology built into their systems.

I did find an article written in one of the super yachts publications where lithium fires on board were more common than one would think and under reported. Logical I suppose since they are the boaters with toys and no interest in drawing attention to incidents well handled aboard. The conclusions for non-LiFePo, non-house banks:

Store batteries in a fireproof metal box, never in the device.
Never charge at night or when unsupervised
Do not charge or store fully charged

Let’s not co-mingle the data and types of lithium under one blanket. They are decidedly not alike. There have been several threads related to this. Lots of collective knowledge and links are here on CF if you do the research.

[chef2sail]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Interesting. But not overly relevant to this forum. Maybe an electric scooter, or a torquedo. The largest lithium battery with a risk of thermal runaway on most boats is usually a cordless drill or maybe a laptop.

Not really accurate
Many boat owners today have replaced their lead battery banks with lithium batteries. We have. Saved 300 lbs of weight and the ability to draw down to 0 meant we needed half as many batteries than before

[RedneckRedcoat]

ABYC has approved lithium battery manufactures. Insurance companies recognize this standard. I personally would not trust a DIY lithium battery pack with a cheap BMS. I think they are disasters waiting to happen. Plus you have no comeback in the even that something was to happen. Lastly salt water has never got into my battery bank and if it was I got a hell of a lot of other issues going on like my boat sinking than to worry about battery run aways.

[JimStarkey]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Actually, as a follow-on. ABYC has a very clear standard that is relatively easy to comply with even for DIY. Is there any other instance where an installation in strict compliance with an ABYC standard is specifically listed as grounds for non-coverage? That is certainly a change, as the long held mantra is that ABYC is the gold standard for compliance and coverage by insurance.

I took Rod Collins's advice and checked with my insurance company (Chubb/ACE) before starting an LFP conversion. They said anything professionally installed in accordance with ABYC standards is fine with them.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by RedneckRedcoat

ABYC has approved lithium battery manufactures. Insurance companies recognize this standard. I personally would not trust a DIY lithium battery pack with a cheap BMS. I think they are disasters waiting to happen..

I don't think a "cheap BMS" means anything far as boat safety. All it is is a battery protection device for the battery. A BMS shouldn't really ever do anything IMO except maybe cell balance. Plus near as I can tell the DIY people over engineer their systems mostly.

I don't understand fear of "lithium" really considering the danger of lead acid. Do you know how I learned of a problem with my last set of gold cart batteries? It was because the wooden sole above them were warm to walk on.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by chef2sail

Not really accurate

Many boat owners today have replaced their lead battery banks with lithium batteries. We have. Saved 300 lbs of weight and the ability to draw down to 0 meant we needed half as many batteries than before

No, fully accurate. The lithium battery banks many boat owners are installing have near zero risk of fire. Certain no worse than lead, and arguably safer (no risk of hydrogen explosion.)

The only lithium aboard most boats, including yours, with a fire risk is your laptop, drill, scooter, etc.

[mdenize]

Originally Posted by Sailor647

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/hu...ooded-electric

"Saltwater exposure can trigger combustion in lithium-ion batteries. If possible, transfer your vehicle to higher ground," the post continued.

Hmmm....

Back to the original question.... I've dropped quite a few cell phones into the sea none were truly waterproof all had lithium batteries, none caught fire. It turns out the sim card and sd card survive such abuse, at least a couple of hours in 15 feet of water in a couple of cases.

So I don't think salt water is the same thing as thermal runaway and a don't think fire risk if they get wet would be top of mind

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by chef2sail

Not really accurate
Many boat owners today have replaced their lead battery banks with lithium batteries. We have. Saved 300 lbs of weight and the ability to draw down to 0 meant we needed half as many batteries than before

A good example here ^^^^^ of someone who doesn't really know what they have or how they should be treated.