Integrel - alternative to diesel gen set?

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Adelie

2000W X 8hr is 16000Whr. Learning how units work helps with clarity, now when other people read what you right and later when you look back at your written work and try to refresh yourself with how you figured stuff out. Also it keeps the units pedants from harassing you, there are number of those here on CF.

If you already have one of these AC units it would be a good move to buy a power meter and measure consumption vs temp for one or several nights to get an idea what actual usage will be.

I have a Kill-a-Watt meter which is acceptable.

Yes apologies, 100% watts x hours is Whr.

But what I meant to say was that you would need at least 16000W of battery just for the AC. Not taking into account DOD system inefficiency etc. Is that correct?

Luckily I can measure my actual loads and system requirements when the time comes to pull the trigger, but dhenline seems to be building a new yacht, so they do not have that luxury.

[Adelie]

Apologies not necessary, I knew what you meant. I just didn’t want to moderate another bunfight about units.

Yep, 16kWhr just for AC.

Measure actual use as soon as a unit is installed. Very little good data on actual consumption in real world conditions.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Apologies not necessary, I knew what you meant. I just didn’t want to moderate another bunfight about units.

Yep, 16kWhr just for AC.

Measure actual use as soon as a unit is installed. Very little good data on actual consumption in real world conditions.

Ha ha, I get you!

[aqfishing]

Greetings,

Any new feedback on this system?

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Greetings,

Any new feedback on this system?

Yep, system continues to be extremely robust, every owner I know is very happy. Just spent last weekend in Annapolis and nothing but glowing reviews.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Kinkircating

Yep, system continues to be extremely robust, every owner I know is very happy. Just spent last weekend in Annapolis and nothing but glowing reviews.

That is great news. I am still concerned the stresses on a smaller 29hp. It may ok on a 45 or 57 or bigger.

How is your Balance coming along?

[aqfishing]

I see they have the E-Drive now. Very clever idea. Fits in between the gearbox and motor then acts as a generator or electric motor and can be fitted to a sail drive. This should avoid the loading issues when mounting an alternator. Presume it comes at s cost! But pretty cool.
Anyone got experience with this?

I tried to post the brochure but its just too big, so heres a link:

https://integrelsolutions.com/cannes...how-resources/

[Kinkircating]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

That is great news. I am still concerned the stresses on a smaller 29hp. It may ok on a 45 or 57 or bigger.

How is your Balance coming along?

Great question, not sure about the smaller engines, all the owners we know of have the 57hp yanmars. We’ve spent about 50 days aboard boats with this set up the year & sailed 6,000 offshore miles. The Integrel’s worked great and was super impressive running A/C off batteries all night on our passage to the Panama Canal. We are doing the Salty Dawg rally next week on a boat with dual Integrels, so that will add a couple more weeks and 1,400 miles to our tally for the year : )

Our boat is coming along nicely thanks! It’s 4 months into build now so starting to look like a real boat! We splash this time next year. We are crazy excited.

[deltaten]

"...without affecting propulsion performance." (sic)
Uh-huh
TANSTAAFL

[bjornfb]

Originally Posted by deltaten

"...without affecting propulsion performance." (sic)
Uh-huh

Instead of just assuming the negative, why not think about how that’s actually possible? We have an Integral and so I can tell you that, no, it does not affect propulsion performance. And the way it doesn’t is that it talks to the ECU and that allows it to only use excess power: if I were to demand 100% of the engine for propulsion, the Integral turns off the power draw; but when we at cruise power, there is excess capacity in the engine and that’s what the Integral draws on. Of course nothing is free and so charging the batteries uses more fuel (diesel -> amp-hours) but it doesn’t change the propulsion performance.

-Bjorn

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by bjornfb

Instead of just assuming the negative, why not think about how that’s actually possible? We have an Integral and so I can tell you that, no, it does not affect propulsion performance. And the way it doesn’t is that it talks to the ECU and that allows it to only use excess power: if I were to demand 100% of the engine for propulsion, the Integral turns off the power draw; but when we at cruise power, there is excess capacity in the engine and that’s what the Integral draws on. Of course nothing is free and so charging the batteries uses more fuel (diesel -> amp-hours) but it doesn’t change the propulsion performance.

-Bjorn

Right, that's pretty much the whole point of the Integrel system, right? Smallish motors that can't do propulsion and high power generation at the same time, so you need to moderate the generation load to only use the remaining available power after propulsion needs are met. It's really no different from an inverter/charger moderating the charger output to prevent overloading the shore power or generator that's providing power. It's very useful in certain situation.

[Symphony]

As of two or three months ago, integral required a minimum 35 hp engine to support their system, as well as suitable space for the mounting plates.

[Johan Leopard51]

Newbie as member, though learnt a lot here before!

We have a Leopard 51 powercat based in Seychelles now about a decade old. Seriously considering Integrel when the Northern Lights 9kW gennie eventually gives up.

We have two Yanmar 8LV370 motors so power not a concern. Q1 : They are V8 motors, does that change the sideload concerns?

I really like that inline version, as one can also power the vessel off battery. Unsure whether the Leopard will have space between motor and gearbox. Also when powered off battery, is the main motor off and would it all still work same in regard Forward/Neutral/Reverse and throttle?

Our thinking is:
Chuck Northern Lights and use that space for a fairly large battery bank - 60 kWh or so as we have an AC grill.
I want to leave most of the existing Leopard electrics the same. So will add battery inverters onto the 48V bank that then plugs directly into same place Northern Lights supplied. But maybe a bit more than 9kW so that can run almost any load concurrently. Most likely is Victrons that can parallel, say 15kW.
Add the most solar we can fit and supply into the 48V bank. When she’s not in use we normally connect to shore power and due to marina having TERRIBLE earthing, we are bleeding metal whenever we are connected. I want to be able to moor and run the vessel off solar (she is idle in marina as not allowed to live onboard in the marina - so very little electrical demand except maybe dehumidifier).
Put in a DC to DC charger so that the 48V system can charge the house battery bank. I am unsure whether to mothball the existing 12V ACR that sees motor alternators charge the 12V house bank??? If something goes wrong with Integrel I can reconnect the two ACR and that will at least keep 12V house bank even if then without the Northern Lights we will not have power for dive compressor and Aircon.

Does above sound like sensible approach?

Sorry for such a long opening post!

[nfbr]

We have 5kw solar, 30kwhr LFP, 2x5kw Victron 48v, 9kw alternator, and DCDC to 12v for Nav, start, lights etc.

My tips
Do not paralel Victron inverters. Just buy a 15kva
As mucb solar as you can
Make your solar fame super super light
Fewer larger MPPT’s
The APS 48v alternators work well.
Belts need to be K10 and very well designed
Consider 2 alternators and 2 belts
Belt ratios are very important
Meanwell makes a good 1.7kw 48v 110/230fully isolated charger. No ground issues. Global charging, but only about 1.2kw in real use.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by nfbr

We have 5kw solar, 30kwhr LFP, 2x5kw Victron 48v, 9kw alternator, and DCDC to 12v for Nav, start, lights etc.

My tips
Do not paralel Victron inverters. Just buy a 15kva
As mucb solar as you can
Make your solar fame super super light
Fewer larger MPPT’s
The APS 48v alternators work well.
Belts need to be K10 and very well designed
Consider 2 alternators and 2 belts
Belt ratios are very important
Meanwell makes a good 1.7kw 48v 110/230fully isolated charger. No ground issues. Global charging, but only about 1.2kw in real use.

Are you having communication issues between the Victron equipment? Is that why you're suggesting single inverter/charger and less MPPT solar controllers?

Awesome boat by the way