Honda 2000 built in.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by smj

Problem is sometimes you disagree and your grounds aren’t legitimate.

Well, I believe this is just another example of personal accusation without validation.

Anything valid to contribute to the subject, “Honda 2000 Built-in”?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Well, I thought my position was clear, but just in case...

“When performing this (or any) modification to a boat, the installer should ensure it complies with applicable marine standards.”

The “controversy” seemed to start with post #12, when another poster contributed what I believed were very prudent safety considerations, and I supported those concerns and expressed the opinion that safety should be a part of the discussion for the benefit of those following, in post # 37.

actually following the postings on the first 3 pages there was no issue with post #12 the op's position was clarified and there was no more discourse untill post #37 which resulted in a rather curt reply by the op in an attempt to keep the thread basically on point but that went unheaded. The thread then as seems to happen quite often after 3 or so pages it took a nosedive.

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by newhaul

better to mount on stern deck and run an exhaust extension down the stern to just above the water. Wrap itis in header tape . Also having the aft panel of the enclosure easily removable for ventilation and maintenance ( just like the old Intel FTP servers were designed. ) add in a couple of hinged hatches in the top . One over the pull cord and the other over the fuel fill cap .

Mount on stern due to the majority of the time using it the vessel will be anchored nose to the wind.

I used a silicone wire reinforced hose run over the side to make sure the exhaust was overboard. I had to make an aluminum adapter for the tail pipe on the Honda. This works well.


I used this hose:
https://www.mcmaster.com/55125k105-55125K38

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Chotu

#2 and #3 are the most difficult

Yes, I agree

In general we have 2 generator enclosures
One is from the manufacturer of the Honda.
We try to design another one for adapting and integration for our application on the boat.
I am trying to avoid the idea but getting more and more to the conclusion that there is one housing too much.

How would that affect Nº 2 an 3 ?

My biggest problem is Nº 1
Isolate intake air filter to eliminate direct explosion hazards from inside the GEN enclosure
Most likely the starter motor is not explosion proof

That would mean the original Honda 2000 is just another component with all the parts we want to use in the existing form or other.

Some of the heat could be reduced moving the silencer out of the housing and making the routing of exhaust gases permanent.
This would also allow less restrictive air flow and more effective evacuation of hazardous fuel vapors.

Since we built a complete new generator housing anyway using technical terms this would be a new Generator based on the Honda 2000.
The parts of interest are still portable.

Those are my thoughts but not a proposal for Stage Nº 3

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jhulmer

I used a silicone wire reinforced hose run over the side to make sure the exhaust was overboard. I had to make an aluminum adapter for the tail pipe on the Honda. This works well.


I used this hose:
https://www.mcmaster.com/55125k105-55125K38

Thats a good idea as well thanks i will add it to my toolkit for potential installs

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Yes, I agree

In general we have 2 generator enclosures
One is from the manufacturer of the Honda.
We try to design another one for adapting and integration for our application on the boat.
I am trying to avoid the idea but getting more and more to the conclusion that there is one housing too much.

How would that affect Nº 2 an 3 ?

My biggest problem is Nº 1
Isolate intake air filter to eliminate direct explosion hazards from inside the GEN enclosure
Most likely the starter motor is not explosion proof

That would mean the original Honda 2000 is just another component with all the parts we want to use in the existing form or other.

Some of the heat could be reduced moving the silencer out of the housing and making the routing of exhaust gases permanent.
This would also allow less restrictive air flow and more effective evacuation of hazardous fuel vapors.

Since we built a complete new generator housing anyway using technical terms this would be a new Generator based on the Honda 2000.
The parts of interest are still portable.

Those are my thoughts but not a proposal for Stage Nº 3

#1is solved with proper install of #2

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

I think the moderators need to take a hard look at where this forum is going. A few posters have poisoned a number of threads to the point of making them unreadable. This has been going on for a number of months and people are losing interest. This is typically how forums typically die.

I would strongly suggest to the moderators to look at the ratio of all posts from the top 10-20 contributors to the total posts and if this ratio is high and rising over the last six months then it means the forum is losing relevance and audience. You need to do whatever it takes to lower this ratio otherwise it just will not work long term.

I'm not sure it is not the long winded posts in conjunction with the number of posts.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I'm not sure it is not the long winded posts in conjunction with the number of posts.

You forgot the mostly superfluous nature of many of those long winded and uninformative posts

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

#2is not difficult to achieve just requires a small ( 1 amp or less) portion of the power produced to run a cooling fan blowing into the enclosure and out vents on the opposite side . Size to be determined by thermal loading. ( fan introducing air not exhausting it can will last a lot longer.)
#3 difficulty level is directly related to where on deck the unit is placed when running .

# 2 is not a problem of power. We have plenty. Honda says DC 12 V 8 amp.
If You wanna take it to the limits here is also the solution for...

# 5 power supply starter motor, etc. / Island mode
https://www.amazon.com/WAWJ-Emergenc.../dp/B07MW27W8J
Has BMS that would also resolves the problem of unregulated DC power supply from the Honda

The problem with the fans could be the noise that we try to keep down with big air intake ports for the fans.

# 3 Yes, exhaust gas routing and posible further exhaust silencing and cooling is boat specific.
So now it is most likely permanent. OEM silencer could be removed. Less cooling requirements in Generator housing.

Do we really need 2 silencers ?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by newhaul

You forgot the mostly superfluous nature of many of those long winded and uninformative posts

And the ones totally irrelevant along with the chat room nature that some turn into. It's a shame that it turns off some people with good info.. I love Gord May's research, he doesn't pretend to be the all knowledgeable guru .

[Exile]

Since there are several people who still seem interested in discussing above-deck installations, and in a (probably futile) effort to clarify yet another attempted misdirection/derailment, I'm not aware of anyone suggesting that "applicable marine standards" not be followed. The issue is instead what those standards actually are, and specifically whether they address portable gas generators installed above-decks.

The ABYC standards I posted from 1990 appear to address the ventilation/heat issue, although they are likely out of date. The ABYC standards Gord posted on AC/DC electrical are even older, and don't appear to apply to portable installations (but I could be wrong). There does appear to be a legitimate concern (and differences of opinion) over proper grounding of a Honda unit, so I would assume that the best place to look for answers would be a current copy of the ABYC standards. But rather than potentially spending the $50 unnecessarily, perhaps someone with access or knowledge of these updated standards could advise whether portable gas generators have now been specifically addressed therein. If people then still feel it necessary to consult with a marine professional (who's not trying to promote his business ) then so be it.

Hey, I'm just trying to follow Uncle Bob's advice and "chill." It's either that or we take a cue from Doc Weavis and discuss our standards for proper beer instead.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

# 2 is not a problem of power. We have plenty. Honda says DC 12 V 8 amp.
If You wanna take it to the limits here is also the solution for...

# 5 power supply starter motor, etc. / Island mode
https://www.amazon.com/WAWJ-Emergenc.../dp/B07MW27W8J
Has BMS that would also resolves the problem of unregulated DC power supply from the Honda

The problem with the fans could be the noise that we try to keep down with big air intake ports for the fans.

# 3 Yes, exhaust gas routing and posible further exhaust silencing and cooling is boat specific.
So now it is most likely permanent. OEM silencer could be removed. Less cooling requirements in Generator housing.

Do we really need 2 silencers ?

as to your #5 why? You are running the generator to charge your house bank along with all of the other stuff so just use an amp out of that to run a cooling fan . Or if you prefer run the fan on 120v directly off the 15 amp plug on the unit. Easy least no complexity and no additional cost.
If you are dead set on using the unregulated 12 volt output run it through a cheap 10 amp solar controller and run the 12v fan off the load feature on the controller. That can all be mounted on the exterior of the enclosure.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Exhaust Pipe installations shall conform to the requirements of the ABYC Standard P-1, “Safe Installation for Exhaust Systems”, and NFPA Standard 302 Part 1, Section 23 (46 CFR 58.10-5(d)).

How did you comply with the Requirements of 46 CFR 182.130 & ABYC P-01
ie:
1.5 REQUIREMENTS -IN GENERAL
1.5.1 The exhaust system shall be gas-tight to the hull interior.
1.5.2 The exhaust system shall be designed so that the back pressure does not exceed that specified by the engine manufacturer.
1.5.3 If included in an exhaust system the installation of an exhaust silencer shall comply with all applicable sections of this standard.
1.5,4 All fittings, joints, clamps and supports of an exhaust system shall be accessible for inspection and repair.
1.5.5 A separate exhaust system shall be provided for each engine installation.

1.5.6 Exhaust system piping and components shall be independently supported to minimize failure from vibration, shock, expansion and contraction.
1.5.7 All supports, hangers, brackets or other fittings in contact with uncooled exhaust carriers shall be non-combustible and constructed so that the temperatures transmitted to the supporting materials will not cause combustion.
1.5.8 Protective guards, jacketing or covers shall be provided wherever persons or gear might come in contact with the exhaust system where the temperature exceeds 200°F (93°C). Engine maintenance or engine repair may make the temporary removal of this protection necessary.
...
1.5.13 Exhaust System Integrity Test -Boats with an accommodation space(s) and gasoline engine(s) for propulsion, electrical generation or auxiliary equipment shall be tested from the exhaust terminus to the connection at the engine, The system shall evidence no leakage under testing checked at a minimum of five minutes after the application of a test pressure of 4 psi.

Gord first off thank you for your research

Secondly none of this would apply due to not being in the hull. The generator in question was placed ( if I understand correctly what was described. ) on deck with the hose running over the side down close to the waterline.
And by going from a 1" exhaust of the factory muffler adapted to the 2" of the hose back pressure would not be an issue.

[a64pilot]

Best use I think of the unregulated 12v outlet if your determined to use it is to make it run the ventilation fan.
I think your grossly underestimating the amount of heat there is to remove, this blower is used on my Nexgen, and it’s a water cooled engine and exhaust, so only the generator is air cooled and it still get the air so hot that it will collapse a blower hose.
I had to use high temp aircraft SCAT hose which is also smooth bore so it flows lots more air.
https://www.westmarine.com/jabsco--1...12_362_001_506

The Honda is a smaller 2.2 as opposed to 3.5, but it’s engine is also air cooled, and even more so the exhaust muffler is air cooled.
I would imagine the Honda gives off significantly more heat than my Nexgen, and of course that heat has to be removed.

That fan is only 150 CFM. My guess is you would need 250 CFM and if you go with 12V that is about 13 amps roughly.

However if you go with 12V it should also of course function as a blower to remove explosive gases, but then you need to run it from the bank.
Surely the 12v circuit isn’t “free” power, it would I think come off of the generators power.

Being above deck of course surely makes it safer, but as it’s no longer a portable I believe you will still need to meet regs, ones that I can think of are.
Flame arrestor, that is just a screen on the intake and may can be purchased. Or fit a K&N airfilter, they are certified as a flame arrestor, I know this from my Jet Ski days.
Engine and generator be ignition protected, it’s still in an enclosed space. Maybe Honda has certified it as so? If not I don’t believe this is one you can pass.
Fuel system? I know if below decks you need to at least change fuel hoses, above deck in an enclosed space? I don’t know.
Exhaust in my opinion needs an insulated wrap, probably want to do that just to keep more heat out of the box anyway.

I think Franzisca’s way is the most logical, find a nice box, leave the top open when you run it.
Sure solves a lot of problems

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Gord first off thank you for your research

Secondly none of this would apply due to not being in the hull. The generator in question was placed ( if I understand correctly what was described. ) on deck with the hose running over the side down close to the waterline.
And by going from a 1" exhaust of the factory muffler adapted to the 2" of the hose back pressure would not be an issue.

^^^Correct answer^^^
It's still a portable Generator and on deck and I know the risks and I'm not worried about the generator police showing up in the middle of the night.
I added the hose because I am worried about the CO showing up in the middle of the night or day for that matter. When there is no wind the fumes find there way into the boat without the hose.