Earthing the inverter

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Not certain but I think the 240 volts is the RMS value rather than a typo. The peak voltage is higher.

As Wotname noted: 240V/230V is the RMS value.
The peak value is Vm(peak) x Root 2 [240/230 x 1.414]

[s/v Jedi]

Okay, I got it now, thanks for all explaining the Aussie terminology

So no, you don’t need any grounding. Simply connect the inverter to the battery/busbar via a fuse as close to the battery/busbar as possible.

The outlets on the inverter can be used directly or via an extension cord.

If you don’t have a bonding system (green wires connecting all kinds of metal parts of the boat) then you’re done. If you do have that, then connect a green wire from the inverter ground terminal (earth, a separate terminal) to that ground/bonding busbar.

The reason you don’t need this is that you don’t have a shore power installation aboard and the outlets never get power from shore. Ground (the water the boat floats in) is never a return path to the power from your inverter.

Enjoy the simplicity of your installation and don’t be tempted to install outlets through the boat etc. because that involves lots of regulations that you will not like

[Cpt Mark]

[QUOTE=GordMay;3881793]The Giandel inverter is only intended to power it's integral receptacles, not a remote AC panel.


Can you explain this further please? I have a Kisae SW1220 that I am intending to do the same idea with. In my case, I have removed a 4kw generator from my boat. I have a rotating switch that was used to choose between shore power and generator power.

Thanks

[s/v Jedi]

[QUOTE=Cpt Mark;3882201]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The Giandel inverter is only intended to power it's integral receptacles, not a remote AC panel.


Can you explain this further please? I have a Kisae SW1220 that I am intending to do the same idea with. In my case, I have removed a 4kw generator from my boat. I have a rotating switch that was used to choose between shore power and generator power.

Thanks

You are not allowed to connect the outlet of that inverter to the switch instead of the generator. You are allowed an extension cord or even a power strip with multiple outlets but the inverter outlet is to be used as an outlet.

[Cpt Mark]

[QUOTE=s/v Jedi;3882216]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

You are not allowed to connect the outlet of that inverter to the switch instead of the generator. You are allowed an extension cord or even a power strip with multiple outlets but the inverter outlet is to be used as an outlet.

Ok. I bought this years ago not knowing anything but I needed pure sine wave. If I had bought the version with a transfer switch, would that work for my application?

https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-conten..._SWXFR1220.pdf

Jedi, I'm just trying to understand. Thanks

[s/v Jedi]

[QUOTE=Cpt Mark;3882227]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Ok. I bought this years ago not knowing anything but I needed pure sine wave. If I had bought the version with a transfer switch, would that work for my application?

https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-conten..._SWXFR1220.pdf

Jedi, I'm just trying to understand. Thanks

No, you need the hardwire option. I would not want that inverter with a transfer switch… I don’t even fully trust Victron with it but they add so many useful features that I accept that… but still designed a bypass in my reference diagrams for when it fails.

[Cpt Mark]

Hmm. Still trying to understand. Maybe I need to more clear.

I have a mechanical, hand operated transfer switch that is connected to shore power and formerly a generator which has been removed.

I have a 2K watt inverter. I'd like more but for now it is what it is.

I can connect appliances to it using an extension cord. Messy but somewhat functional.

The transfer switch has 4 positions. Load 1 then off, then off again, then load 2.

Instead of having an extension cord to the appliance I'd run heavier gauge wire to the transfer switch.

Also have remote on/off switch for the inverter. So to use the inverter, the transfer switch goes to the off position twice, then the inverter load to feed my 12v panel. Then I need to turn the inverter on as well.

No automatic switching.

As I see it, with not a ton of understanding I'll admit. The inverter shouldn't care whether whether its plugged into a stove top or the transfer switch.

Am I missing something?

I will be on the hook the vast majority of my time so rarely use shore power once I leave

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Hmm. Still trying to understand. Maybe I need to more clear.
.............
No automatic switching.

As I see it, with not a ton of understanding I'll admit. The inverter shouldn't care whether whether its plugged into a stove top or the transfer switch.

Am I missing something?

I will be on the hook the vast majority of my time so rarely use shore power once I leave

The inverter doesn't care but perhaps the regulatory authorities care. I dunno about the USA, but it makes a big difference in Australia; hard wired (either switched or auto) requires a whole different set of standards that needs to be adhered to down under.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Wotname

The inverter doesn't care but perhaps the regulatory authorities care. I dunno about the USA, but it makes a big difference in Australia; hard wired (either switched or auto) requires a whole different set of standards that needs to be adhered to down under.

Indeed. For a fixed installation connected to an AC breaker distribution panel and outlets installed theough the boat, you need something in the class of a Victron Multiplus inverter/charger. Not only is it rated and approved for hardwired installation, it also provides all the modern features you want, like PowerAssist.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Wotname

The inverter doesn't care but perhaps the regulatory authorities care. I dunno about the USA, but it makes a big difference in Australia; hard wired (either switched or auto) requires a whole different set of standards that needs to be adhered to down under.

I wondered about that. What sort of electrician could check what I have done? I have had a house-hold electrician look at the set up and he had no problems. I made sure the galley power point was well above and away from the galley water tap.

Maybe Fore and Aft (who is a Marine Surveyor) could elucidate?

Looks like I need RCDs on all power points? What the most economical way of doing that?


Testing residual current devices


Australian Maritime Safety Authorityhttps://www.amsa.gov.au › domestic-commercial-vessels

16 Oct 2023 — Yearly inspection and testing of RCDs must be done by a competent person such as a licensed electrician or accredited marine surveyor with ...

[Fore and Aft]

Coopec 43 the first comment I caught was getting rid of your stainless-steel thru hulls and replacing them with Tru Design? Any reason why? Fair enough Tru Design are good, but by far most boats I survey have bronze or stainless steel.
As for the inverter issue, because most of the time they are self-installed they are usually connected to the battery negative and positive or maybe a bus bar depending on the electrical set up. My inverter is set up direct to the battery with the appropriate fuse. The inverter is in a locker, and I have plugged in and mounted a four-outlet power board with individual switches below the dinette seat. We use it for charging laptops so that is the most convenient spot for us. The inverter has never failed us in six years. We don't have it on all the time, just when it is needed.
I also picked up you are wanting to run a hot water system through the inverter? What sort of hot water system and do you have the battery capacity?
If I was going to mount 240volt outlets around the boat, I would get a marine electrician to do the installation. On our house which is run through an inverter, the inverter does not even have an outlet plug. You have to wire it direct into the switch board and then run everything from there. Thats what you will normally see on a boat. If the owner has gone to the expense of 240-volt wiring, then they usually wire a plug for shore power as well. Then next to the 12-volt switch panel will be a 240-volt switch board with a selector for shore power or Inverter or even a generator.
I am fairly ignorant on wiring and usually leave it to the professionals.
Jedi you need to come down under for a snag and sink some piss with us while we teach you a bit about Aussie lingo. We might even be able to organise a few Sheila's and some bogans to do burn outs in the marina carpark!
Cheers

[GordMay]

This can get quite technical, so only consider the following a brief introduction to the subject, and NOT specific advice, on any installation.

In North America the white Neutral wire is also called the “Grounded Conductor”.
The National/Canadian Electric Code [NEC/CEC], and American Boat and Yacht Council [ABYC] standards, require that the green Safety Ground, and the white Neutral wires, in an AC electrical system, MUST be Bonded together at – and ONLY at – the “separately derived source“ of the AC power, being utilized, at any given time.

This means that:

When utilizing Shore Power, the Neutral is bonded to Gnd at the shore power source [the utility], and the boat’s neutral in NOT bonded [on the boat].

When utilizing a separately derived source, such as an onboard Generator, or Inverter, the boat’s Neutral IS bonded to ground [on the boat].
In other words, the frame of a boat’s generator set, or the chassis of a boat’s inverter, are bonded to the boat’s safety ground, only WHEN they are the source of AC power be used, but NOT, when the boat is using shore power.
This requires that the Neutral be connected [bonded], or disconnected [UN-bonded], to ground, depending upon power source selection [Shore, Generator, or Inverter].

In the case of inverters the Neutral is Bonded, ONLY when the inverter is actually producing AC power, and shore power is not available.

Perhaps, these will explain a little more:

The Safety Ground and Neutral Bonding on Boats
➥ https://gilwellbear.wordpress.com/20...ding-on-boats/

The Connection Between Bonding, Grounding And Lightning
➥ https://newboatbuilders.com/pages/electricity14.html

Neutral to Ground Demystified
➥ https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/n...d-demystified/

ABYC/ISO AC-DC grounding requirements [read critically - not all opinions are authoritative]
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-262681-4.html

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Coopec 43 the My inverter is set up direct to the battery with the appropriate fuse. The inverter is in a locker, and I have plugged in and mounted a four-outlet power board with individual switches below the dinette seat.
Jedi you need to come down under for a snag and sink some piss with us while we teach you a bit about Aussie lingo. We might even be able to organise a few Sheila's and some bogans to do burn outs in the marina carpark!
Cheers

I followed Giandel's instructions and didn't put mine in a locker as they stated inverters produce a lot of heat and you need airflow to dissipate the heat. I placed my inverter below the gangway stairs . (But I need to put a cowl over the top to stop it getting wet).


But then you haven't had a problem? As your fellow Queenslander author/blue water sailor would say "That demonstrates the luck of fools"

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by GordMay

This can get quite technical, so only consider the following a brief introduction to the subject, and NOT specific advice, on any installation.

In North America the white Neutral wire is also called the “Grounded Conductor”.

Note: White Grounded conductor - NOT Green Grounding conductor.

[RaymondR]

I think these type plugs and sockets illustrated in Post #15 are why you should not use ordinary extension leads or caravan sockets for shore connections (Note the screw type retention collars) in Australia. However I have noticed that all marinas do not comply.