D400 wind generator and Lithium batteries

[Dean2]

Looking at installing a D400 on my boat, which has 400Ah LiFePO4 batts.

In particular I am concerned that the D400 regulator needs to be connected directly to the battery bank. This removes the ability for the BMS to protect the system from overcharging. They seem to use a dump resistor to absorb excess charging rather than disconnection.

Does anyone have any real-world experience of this scenario - as in is there an alternate regulator that would control charging voltage, deal with the dump resistor etc etc?

[GordMay]

D400 Manual ➥ https://eclectic-energy.co.uk/wp-con...400-Manual.pdf

D400 Regulator Manual ➥ https://manualzz.com/doc/27713026/d400-regulator-manual

[Dean2]

Thanks for that, I had already gone through all the manuals. Apart from describing the rather painful method of reducing the charging voltage, sadly it doesn't answer my question 8>)

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Thanks for that, I had already gone through all the manuals. Apart from describing the rather painful method of reducing the charging voltage, sadly it doesn't answer my question 8>)

The d400 is an alternator just like the one on your engine , hence abrupt disconnection has the same problems , ie a large voltage spike will result that will most likely fry the regulator.

Dump resistors are usually used to maintain a load on the wind generator and prevent over speeding

In reality out of the box this system isn’t suitable for lithium direct connection , as with engine alternators the simplest solution is keep a lead acid, usually the starter battery, in parallel with the lithium , or a dc -dc battery charger from the LA to the LFP battery.

[HankOnthewater]

Yes, there is a little knob on the controller to adjust the max voltage, but this is fairly crude, and maybe not accurate enough for LFP.

I agree, do not connect a wind generator to LFP batteries. I have a D400, but still have AGM batteries, If I were to go LFP as house batteries I would likely put the D400 to the starter batteries, and then a DC to Dc charger to the LFP bank.

Hmmm, this is getting complicated. Might sell the wind generators if I go lithium......

I think because of this issue wind generators will become even less common.

[rms95835]

There are different wind gens available with much more sophisticated controllers that will accommodate charging lithium batteries. The D400 seems a bit old school.

[hpeer]

Old school? Yes.

Quite and reliable? Yes.

[sailing_gal]

I have a D400 windgen and I changed out my batteries to 400 Ah Lithiums. I managed to fry the regulator in the D400 in no time. However, I am lucky enough to have a friend who is really good with this stuff. He got rid of the D400 regulator and rewired everything using some relays and limiters and it works great! One of the issues with the D400 is that the switch is off unless you flip the switch to stop the unit, then the switch is powered on. That means that the power is constantly going to the unit with virtually no limit while on.

He rewired it. So, now the switch is on while I want power. And since the switch is on, he added a limiter so that as the batteries get close to the BMS shut off power, the windgen switches itself off. And when you turn on the brake, you are essentially turning the unit off. I am not an electronics geek, so I hope I am getting the gist of this correct. At any rate, since he did that, I have seen loads of power going into my batteries on super windy days- as much as 14 amps, no frying of any switches and the D400 is performing great. It's been over a year now.

So, it can be done.

[sailstax]

You might want to look into the MarineKinetix MK4+ available at marinebeam.com. We just installed one and it works great. No dump resistors to deal with. Automatic break applied on over speed and when batteries are full. Also VERY quiet.

[sailcrazy]

Following. My Rutland 914i is getting a little long in the tooth, and I've been eyeing the D400 for some years. I know it would work well with my Trojan T-105s, but Li seem to be the way of the future!

[kryg]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Looking at installing a D400 on my boat, which has 400Ah LiFePO4 batts.

In particular I am concerned that the D400 regulator needs to be connected directly to the battery bank. This removes the ability for the BMS to protect the system from overcharging. They seem to use a dump resistor to absorb excess charging rather than disconnection.

Does anyone have any real-world experience of this scenario - as in is there an alternate regulator that would control charging voltage, deal with the dump resistor etc etc?

I have a D 400 for many years on board. I had it rebuild once and found the Owner and staff very helpful. I suggest you contact him direct to find out what is doable and what is not. Mr. Peter Anderson
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 1623 835400
Eclectic Energy Ltd

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

Following. My Rutland 914i is getting a little long in the tooth, and I've been eyeing the D400 for some years. I know it would work well with my Trojan T-105s, but Li seem to be the way of the future!

Way of the future? Perhaps.

Not for me. Now I am not every body so this is just what works for me.

We cruise in the eastern Caribbean. If my batteries have an issue ai’ve got a problem. This happened in 2019, I needed new batteries in Guadelouope. I should have changed them before I launched i. grenada but got greedy and thought I could get one more season out if them.

Since I was running golf cart batteries (like T-105) I was able to get a set within a day. Twice USA prices but a done deal. Goof cart batteries are pretty robust, they don’t have any circuitry to go bad and don’t need fancy and expensive management systems. I charge with 600watts of solar and a wind gen very similar to a D-400. Very reliable.

Comparing the 2 systems, just from the comments in this thread, the GC batteries don’t have the nice charge and discharge characteristics of lithium but they are:
Much less expensive.
Do not require expensive and complicated battery management.
Play nice with alternators; motor or wind generated.
And are more reliable simply because they are far less complex.

So for ME I will happily stick with my GC system. The work well enough.

[Kinchega]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Looking at installing a D400 on my boat, which has 400Ah LiFePO4 batts.

In particular I am concerned that the D400 regulator needs to be connected directly to the battery bank. This removes the ability for the BMS to protect the system from overcharging. They seem to use a dump resistor to absorb excess charging rather than disconnection.

Does anyone have any real-world experience of this scenario - as in is there an alternate regulator that would control charging voltage, deal with the dump resistor etc etc?

Hey Dean
We have a D400 and AGM batteries, since installing 1200watts of solar the D400 is now an ornamental piece of kit. In all reality they have very limited output untill the wind gets above 20knts and they j just make noise and the resistor bank is not quiet either.
When the D400 is spinnig and the sun is out the D400 dumps all charge to the resistors which adds this interesting background hum to the sound of the D400 whirring.
Personally I think they are old technology and not a requirement if you have enough solar

[hpeer]

^
If you have 1200 watts of solar you are probably correct. One advantage of a cat.
When we were in a state side marina I considered getting rid of the wind gen.
If you are situated so that the wind gen continually shades the panels it is likely a net loss.

But in the Eastern Caribbean with 600 watts of solar on a monohull the wind gen is a good asset. I don’t recognize the OP’s boat.

As a VERY rough rule of thumb the output is about
40 knots 40amps
20 knots 10 amps
10 knots 2-1/2 amps

We often have sustained 15 knots and over 24 hours that is meaningful. We seldom draw deeply on the batteries over night.

But I wonder if there is something amiss with your set up. We have an Aerogen, a near twin of the D400, the housing is different, controllers the same. It is VERY quiet and the dump resistors make no noise. If I am very attentive I can infrequently hear something; in heavy wind. They are very accessible from our aft companionway, I put my hand on the to see if they are warm.

The generator itself was beginning to make some bearing noise, after being through a 70 knot storm and throwing its blades (yards mistake). I took the gen to an alternator shop and had the bearings replaced for under $250 us, now as quiet as a mouse. AND I don’t have sound isolators, it is hard mounted to the arch. Being in a steel boat sound is transmitted easily, it is right near our bunk, it is detectable but never objectionable.

Our different experiences make me think you have some issues with your set up. I would suspect the resistors have loose mounting screws or loose/corroded electrical connections. The gen itself could have bad bearings or damaged blades.

But with 1200 watts why bother.

But that is a different (but related) discussion than the lithium battery matter.

[Tikitour]

Hi I have a D400 and I am considering replacing AGM batteries with Lithium batteries. What is the consensus is the D400 compatible for charging lithium?
Cheers