42: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by captmikem

spend a day filling out the forms and get a 6 pack. They feel of you and if you are warm and can copy the rules of the road they give you one.

Better not be just that easy to get a 6 pack!
There's plenty of responsibility with that license.
As well, some documented sea time possibly.
I'd check with different insurance companies.
Good luck,
SV Cloud Duster

[newhaul]

https://www.boatwise.com/oupv6captains.html

What are the USCG 6-Pak requirements?
The primary requirements are:
Age 18 or over
360 days underway experience
90 of those days in the last 3 years
Physical, drug test and eye exam
Valid CPR/First Aid card to Valid CPR/First Aid card (American Red Cross, Heart Assoc. or USCG Approved course)
Completion of the USCG exam OR
Completion of a USCG approved course like the BOATWISE OUPV class
Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC Card )

definitely not easy and not needed for personal vessel that is not for hire.

[jmschmidt]

TWIC cards have not been required for years unless you regularly utilize a secured port facility and/or are posted as crew on an IMO registered vessel

They dropped that requirement just after I paid $135 for my TWIC. It was kind 'a fun to walk up to some ladies, er I mean females, and say "Want to see my TWIC?"

[Navasana]

Originally Posted by chriadel

I’m not starting from zip however, this part, “If you are starting from zip the full-on ASA courses followed by a few months crewing, including helming, on similar boats will make your resume look a lot better.” is what I’m trying to do now. I have the ASA going. Trying to figure out how arrange the rest. Suggestions?

Hi chraidel,

We went through the same thing in 2017. We had chartered cats two times previously and had one ASA course. Our insurer required us to hire a captain to "prove our skills." We were located on the east coast. With the captain, we sailed with the captain for five days. At the conclusion, he wrote a letter for our insurer that we proved we could handle the boat. Our insurer then dropped the captain requirement.

We hit it off with out captain, and we had a wonderful week. Looking back, it was the perfect way to get to know a new boat and see some anchorages that we may not have gone thanks to his local knowledge.

Best of luck!

[Jim Cate]

Perhaps if more insurers had such high standards for coverage our premiums would be lower... I doubt if anyone would deny that more experienced sailors have lower claim frequencies.

Jim

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Perhaps if more insurers had such high standards for coverage our premiums would be lower... I doubt if anyone would deny that more experienced sailors have lower claim frequencies.

Jim

Jim having the license does not = better sailor.

I don't have any special licenses I pay just under $400 a year here full coverage .

$500,000 liability million EPA , million wreck removal, + $15,000 hull value .

[Jim Cate]

Jim having the license does not = better sailor.

All too true, but at least it indicates that the customer has exerted SOME effort to improve his skills and awareness, and has some considerable sea time. All of these factors should improve the odds against claims being made and "impoverishing" the insurance company!

Jim

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

TWIC cards have not been required for years unless you regularly utilize a secured port facility and/or are posted as crew on an IMO registered vessel

They dropped that requirement just after I paid $135 for my TWIC. It was kind 'a fun to walk up to some ladies, er I mean females, and say "Want to see my TWIC?"

Actually the TWIC is required for initial license. That's how your background check gets done. USCG used to do those themselves but not anymore. After the initial, if you're not working a boat or facility that requires a TWIC you don't have to renew it.

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

It was kind 'a fun to walk up to some ladies, er I mean females, and say "Want to see my TWIC?"

really? huh!

[RSH]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

First I have ever heard of that, or of ASA classes being required.
They really had you complete ASA classes, or did they want a sign off?
When I bought my Maule my Insurence company wanted me to have 10 hours of PIC time in type, which is normal, especially for an airplane that has a very high claims / loss rate, which a Maule does.

Perhaps Lagoons have a high claims / loss rate?

They really had us complete the classes, and the teacher we picked was a stickler for both hands-on and the written part of the tests. I don't think he would have signed off on us if he thought we weren't meeting the baseline competence. On a scale of 1-10 I'd give us a 4 for competence at this point, and we at least know what we don't know now.

I don't think Lagoons have a higher rate than regular boats, but they are more expensive than your average boat, I think. Ours was $250k for a ten year old well kept boat.

Originally Posted by chriadel

Accumulating and documenting the time is tuff at the moment. Trying like hell to change that.

We have a captain's log, and every time we go out we log it. It's not as often as we'd like, but every bit matters.

Originally Posted by chriadel

I’m not starting from zip however, this part, “If you are starting from zip the full-on ASA courses followed by a few months crewing, including helming, on similar boats will make your resume look a lot better.” is what I’m trying to do now. I have the ASA going. Trying to figure out how arrange the rest. Suggestions?

Why do you think you need more than the ASA's to start? I'd talk to your insurance agent. Like others have mentioned, hanham insurance and Hugo are very good.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by chriadel

I’m not starting from zip .............

Interestingly, you've been asked several times for a brief description of experience, which appears to be getting skirted.

You are not required to have an OUPV license to operate a 42 foot boat. However, without the requisite experience, many insurance companies will require that you hire a licensed captain. For this purpose, a captain with an OUPV license will suffice, provided there are not more than 6 passengers on the vessel at any one time.

I suspect the broker is misguided or you misunderstood.

Those of us who have slowly moved up through sizes over time (years) are not held to the same requirements. I've been asked to provide a resume of experience when shopping for new insurance on many occasions.

[HighTemp]

Is it just a general assumption that having a OUPV will actually decrease ones premiums?

Reason I ask is because at one time I was thinking of obtaining mine for the expressed purpose of getting a better insurance rate. In reality ( at least with the insurance brokers I inquired with ) I was told that it would have little to no effect since I was not going to use our boat for commercial purposes. Actually, they indicated that it would likely increase due to increase liability exposure of having paying passengers on board. Basically commercial policy vs. a pleasure craft for private use policy. Others may have more knowledge and experience with this matter and I would be interested to hear it, but after my research I decided that the time and effort required to obtain my Captains License would bear little savings with regard to insurance premiums.

As for the need to provide a sailing resume, the couple of years we spent on monohulls in a fractional membership program, our ASA courses and a letter from a Captain have apparently been sufficient, as we have never been required to have a Captain on board.

[Zzmeyer]

When I got my OUPV I asked my insurance agent to see if I could get a lower rate. I did not get a lower rate. Having said that, I think it helped me get insurance on my new boat as I plan on significant offshore sailing.

[Mystic38]

uh??? simply not true.

A not easy test plus documented 360 days at sea

Originally Posted by captmikem

spend a day filling out the forms and get a 6 pack. They feel of you and if you are warm and can copy the rules of the road they give you one.

[WindLove]

Originally Posted by Mystic38

uh??? simply not true.

A not easy test plus documented 360 days at sea

No it's not. In fact, the racket is that you have to pay to have someone teach to the test. The reality is no one who pays the money to have the class ever fails and anyone who goes straight to the Coast Guard would have to spend lots of weeks/months studying. I think it's 120 questions w/ 30 devoted to Rules of the Road, of which you can only miss 3 as you must get a 90% on that portion to pass.

Here is an easy sample question:

INTERNATIONAL & INLAND At night, which lights are required to be shown by a dredge on
the side of the dredge which another vessel may pass?
A. One red light
B. Two red lights
C. One white light
D. Two green lights)