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Old 27-09-2019, 08:43   #76
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

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Originally Posted by captmikem View Post
spend a day filling out the forms and get a 6 pack. They feel of you and if you are warm and can copy the rules of the road they give you one.
You left out the part about committing a federal crime. If a boater had the sufficient sea days to get an OUPV, an insurance carrier wouldn't demand it in the first place. Falsifying sea experience (or any other material fact) on a USCG license application can be prosecuted as a federal felony, and is punishable by up to five years in prison.
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Old 27-09-2019, 08:55   #77
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

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Originally Posted by captmikem View Post
spend a day filling out the forms and get a 6 pack. They feel of you and if you are warm and can copy the rules of the road they give you one.
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Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
You left out the part about committing a federal crime. If a boater had the sufficient sea days to get an OUPV, an insurance carrier wouldn't demand it in the first place. Falsifying sea experience (or any other material fact) on a USCG license application can be prosecuted as a federal felony, and is punishable by up to five years in prison.
Nobody said anything about lying or falsifying documents. Let's not loose our heads here.
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Old 27-09-2019, 09:26   #78
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

I have never been asked if I have a 6-pack for insurance purposes. If you have a 6-pack, you may get a discount - but you may also be held to a higher standard of care in the event of an issue. I currently insure a Hunter 42 Passage and a new Lagoon 40 - which we just sailed back from France (with full insurance). Try Boat US/Geico, Gowrie Group etc. If you happen to be in Florida or Gulf Coast, PM me and I can give you a couple of good brokers to try.

Insurance is a very dynamic market, and things change quite quickly, especially if a company has had some big storm losses.
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Old 27-09-2019, 09:35   #79
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

I can't get over that the insurance company wants someone to have an OUPV license before they'll write a policy. To me, that shows the insurance company has no clue about what makes a safe sailor and a good insurance risk. I can see them asking for proof of competency; but thinking that an OUPV is a reasonable level of proof is plain off the wall.

I've never had to through that myself. When I bought my first big boy boat (an Oday 23) over twenty years ago, the insurance company (Progressive) asked zero questions about me. When I bought my Catalina 28 last year, my insurance company asked a bunch of questions about the boat relating to the survey, but nothing about me.

Strangely, the most probing questions about my competency with my Catalina came from the Admiral. "Are you sure you know what you're doing? How do you know how to work that thing?" Her greatest fixation on my abilities centered on the fact that this new boat has a steering wheel, while my old boat had a tiller. No matter how much I assured her that the wheel worked just like the one on a car, she was quite skeptical, as if this would be way too much for me to process.

So far, so good....
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Old 27-09-2019, 11:54   #80
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

Actually, you need 360 days at sea documented time to sit for the maximum of six people on board FOR HIRE. ( Usually referred to as a SIX PAC )

And that license is used for hire or compensation.

If you are sailing for fun, NOT for hire, you do NOT need a six pack USCG lic.

However,

Windlove is right on...that U.S.C.G test is a beast that the majority of pleasure boat owners could not pass without experience, testing, and study..

In addition to your sea time, and getting the experience we suggest

1. Sailing lessons from a professional sailing school, Basic, Intermediate and advanced
2. Pass their written tests, and check out sails.
3. Add in Coastal Piloting and Navigation
4. Then log your 365 days at sea of documented time,
5. Windlove is quite correct....take a U.S.C.G License Preparatory Class, and study
and work hard. Plus the courses are fun and interesting, and informative.
6, Assemble all of your required paperwork, sea time logs, recommendations, plus a pile more.

& Testing, by appointment at the U.S.C.G Testing facility near you....
Plan on as full day, to a day and half.

9. Many of the different sections require a 90 % to pass, other sections are 70%

Also, you can check with other Insurance Companies, that may accept the ASA
certification from sailing schools.

The above is accurate, the people making light about the USCG Merchant Marine
Officer License have never attained the six pack or 100 ton. Applicants need to understand all that is required for the U.S.C.G testing from those here who have been there and done that..

Sailing has been a grand life, world wide, and meeting fantastic and wonderful and positive people. We all have a marvelous opportunity with sailing or motor vessels to get out and explore our local waters and world wide destinations. New horizons and ports are waiting for you.

Otherwise....

Sailing schools have the ASA ( American Sailing Association ) certification, that others have mentioned here, and those completed and passed courses should be accepted by most insurance companies.


It will all work out just fine.

Keep the fun light illuminated.
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Old 27-09-2019, 13:28   #81
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

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Originally Posted by Zzmeyer View Post
When I got my OUPV I asked my insurance agent to see if I could get a lower rate. I did not get a lower rate. Having said that, I think it helped me get insurance on my new boat as I plan on significant offshore sailing.
The insurance companies I have dealt with offered the same discount for any type of certificate. Wouldn't matter if it was a four hour Sheriff's course or Unlimited Master. You were probably already getting the only discount they offered.
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Old 27-09-2019, 15:25   #82
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

In Australia a "six Pack" is a half dozen cans of beer.
We have laws against drink driving.
Horrible Horatio Hornblower.
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Old 27-09-2019, 15:29   #83
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

Pantaenius required me to have an "approved captain" on board until I completed their "Training Operator Training Check Off Form".
Approved Captain was someone they felt comfortable with, not necessarily licensed.

Check Off List consisted of the following sections:
A. Below deck compartments.
B. Engine room machinery systems, operations, and location of equipment.
C. Electrical systems and operation.
D. Safety equipment on board and requirements.
E. How to use the VHF radio.
F. How to prepare before departure.
G. How to dock, undock, anchor, pick up a mooring and secure vessel.
H. How to navigate, chart, use GPS plotter and RADAR, rules of the road.
I. How to respond to safety issues.
J. Dinghy operation.

Each section had multiple individual check off items.

Since my sailing resume did not consist of any similar style or size vessel, this was necessary for their underwriters. I felt it made sense.

We hired a couple that had been living on a Lagoon 420 for the about a decade and 3+ years of sailing from Europe through the Caribbean. We spent morning until evening every day with one overnight. Total of 5 days.

Even today, they have to pre approve each individual to operate the vessel unless it's an emergency.

Our coverage area is the entire East Coast USA/Canada, Gulf of Mexico and the entire Caribbean. Excludes Haiti, Cuba and Venezuela.
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Old 27-09-2019, 16:26   #84
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

IMIS 800-262-8911
Garrett Heck, Kevin Severance Insurance Group, 800-816-7714
We cruise and are currently in RoatŠn, Honduras. Both offer the cruising area you want.
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Old 27-09-2019, 19:25   #85
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

Iím afraid itís true that itís too easy to get even a 100 ton Masters. A coworker with a 100 ton was nicknamed ďGelcoat BobĒ by the maintenance staff. Iíve had to interview prospective 100 ton captains who didnít know how to spring the bow or stern away from the dock.
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Old 27-09-2019, 20:14   #86
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

Masters Certificates in most countries require actual commercial work and a graduation system through the various certificate requirements and a log ticket signed off by the master of each vessel worked on. This in addition to exams as one works through the various levels.

As in Canada ....
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...-menu-2310.htm
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Old 27-09-2019, 21:47   #87
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

BoatUS is who I have. They didnít require a 6 Pack. They work with Geico. Havenít had to file any claims but customer service is cool.
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Old 28-09-2019, 06:44   #88
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

6 pax also requires 1,000 hrs documented Sea time. Call Geico re insurance.
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Old 28-09-2019, 06:46   #89
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

mawtty,

Nara Inlet, ( A few years back )

aye mate, a shot of Bundy, and a 4X, or Tueys New,
steak cooking on the stern mounted barbie, and cocatoos head
bobbing for a morsel on the stern pulpit...( no handouts to wild life )

Later listening to Guardians of the Reef, as we snug up on the stern
cockpit cushion watching for the Southern Cross to appear.

Just a bit of the special memories of sailing the Whitsunday's.

Thank you
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Old 28-09-2019, 08:25   #90
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Re: No 6-pack, no insurance. Huh, really?

This is a long thread with a lot of good personal experience stories. I'll just add a quicky about ours.


Twenty years ago we bought our very first boat - a 1979 Whitby 42. Boat US said that they did not cover boats that size. Another agent/underwriter said that we would have to start with a 24' boat. I asked what I would have to do to get insurance on a 42. They said I could go up 2' per year. LOL


But despite zero experience and no classes on boats, we got insurance. Whether it was much higher than others were paying for the same size/type boat I am not sure. They did require a survey and for (all) the deficiencies noted to be corrected. I told them that I would correct the critical or very serious ones and do the rest of them the next year or so. They covered us.



We changed companies when we went to Mexico as the first one would not cover that. We had experience then but it was more expensive. We went across the Pacific and carried the same coverage.


Five years ago we purchased another 42' boat, and considered "old" as it was a 1981 in 2004. Our broker suggested a Seattle broker and they gave us a policy with Chubb. No survey, no questions about experience, no 6-pack, and no certifications although we had gone through the recreational boat multi-week course by then.


I still have never met them and they are 75 miles away so I don't think you have to go with a local company. And it all depends on the broker (who can go to bat for you with underwriters and know which company will cover what), and then the underwriter if you have to talk them into covering you.


We are very happy with Chubb so far but have never had a claim so I don't know how they would be for claim service.
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