General Info: New or Used where is the Line?

[Mr Windy]

I have been looking at Used Lagoons. seems many blogs on older boats are better built, they used more material in the hulls, the interior woodwork was of a better quality, the craftsmanship was better. etc.

Then I began looking at a new 450ST as i don't care for the fly bridge style,. there doesn't seem to be many 470's galley up on the market. 42 and smaller are just on the edge of what I don't wantt. So why not go with 44, 45 or 47.

the new 450ST set up somewhat equal, is about double as say a 2004 470. I realize when buying new you will take a deprecition hit of 10 to 20% in the first few years. I can except a portion of that % of lose to the fact, I get to sail a new boat! everything is new and i get to be the one to give her, her first character. (part of the joys of life)
However i need more then that fact and feeling to justify buying new.

1. what about the facts that engineering and apponents have evolved in 12 years?

2. what about the fact that in 10 years she will only be 10 years old and the 2000 / something will be 22 to 26 years old?

3. what about the dealerships sales pitch? That you have a 3 year hull warranty and a 2 year warranty on components. so you don't have to start writing checks right away as you would even on a good maintained used boat.

4. I am sure this is a age old discussion. New verses Used. so once again I am looking for the positives and the negatives of buying a new 450ST or traveling, looking, waiting, looking again and again, doing a refit of some sorts and buying a good owners version used boat.

5. in the end, 10 years from now would there be all that much of a percentage loss between New and Used?

Thanks in advance for any help or positive input you might have the.
Mr Windy

[LagunaRed]

We struggled with the decision as well. We ended up buying a new Lagoon 52. Our principal reasons were:

1) As this is our first boat purchase we wanted to get as many of the options "factory" installed as possible so we knew what we are getting. The boat has just recently arrived and so far, we've been satisfied that everything is there and working.

2) We are taking the kids on a 1-2 year cruise (girls, 4 & 12) and I wanted a new boat for systems integrity issues (hulls, engines, etc.). We had the boat delivered from France so it already has over 4,000 sea miles with no major problems so I'm pretty confident that the hulls / systems are good and they are under warranty.

3) The warranty! Now I've read many horror stories in this forum and in other blogs but I still figured this was a better option than no warranty. Additionally, I like the fact that I have one group to call for all of the issues on the boat. I think that should help us down the road.


At the end of the day, I don't know if new or used was the right call. I suspect it depends on your history of working on boats, timelines and of course, the budget. For us, new made sense and we're excited (well overstatement) to work through the kinks as we go explore the Caribbean with our little monkeys.




Fair Winds,

Laguna Red
S/v Summer Kai
Lagoon 52 Hull #93

Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Stumble]

Personally I see almost zero value to buying a new boat unless it is a custome design. The depreciation hit is too big, and in production boats (particularly those designs in charter) it's too easy to find a newish boat with whatever design features you want.

Boats depreciate in value like cars, but cost like houses. I would far rather buy a 3-5 year old used boat and spend money on a refit than buy a new boat and immediatly spend money on the outfitting. Because if you thing new boats come geared to go cruising you are wrong, on a brand spanking new 50' cat I would expect to spend six months or more getting it ready to go cruising.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Personally I see almost zero value to buying a new boat unless it is a custome design. The depreciation hit is too big, and in production boats (particularly those designs in charter) it's too easy to find a newish boat with whatever design features you want.

Boats depreciate in value like cars, but cost like houses. I would far rather buy a 3-5 year old used boat and spend money on a refit than buy a new boat and immediatly spend money on the outfitting. Because if you thing new boats come geared to go cruising you are wrong, on a brand spanking new 50' cat I would expect to spend six months or more getting it ready to go cruising.

Completely agree, you can not make a financial case for buying a new boat. You can make an emotional case for buying new but that's it. Some people have the money and don't worry about it and that's good for the builders.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Some people have the money and don't worry about it and that's good for the builders.

... and good for used boat buyers. the more people buy a new boat the more used ones are on the market.

[LagunaRed]

I do agree with all the comments in the thread. I assumed that we would lose 25% of the value of our Lagoon 52 the moment it left the dock in Bordeaux. As this was an emotional purchase, and our first boat, I didn't worry about it too much. We also took delivery of the boat 15 months before our scheduled long cruise so we could get to know the boat intimately and ensure we had everything we needed. I also wanted to ensure my wife was well qualified to sail the boat and this gives us plenty of time to get her up a reasonable learning curve.

Another aspect of my decision is that it was a lot easier to get my wife to go along with the extended cruising plan with a new boat than a used one. That was worth the initial depreciation in my opinion.

Good luck with your purchase!


Fair Winds,

Laguna Red
S/v Summer Kai
Lagoon 52 Hull #93

Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[maxingout]

We started out with a new Privilege 39 catamaran, and we had very few maintenance issues for the first five years. There was a five year grace period before much work/money/effort was required to keep the boat in good shape for offshore work.

After 5 years of offshore sailing, real wear and tear takes its toll on the yacht.

The five year grace period is the reason I would go for a new yacht if I had the money. If you are going to do a four year circumnavigation, you could complete it in the five year grace period before things start to wear out.

[peterp]

Originally Posted by maxingout

We started out with a new Privilege 39 catamaran, and we had very few maintenance issues for the first five years. There was a five year grace period before much work/money/effort was required to keep the boat in good shape for offshore work.

After 5 years of offshore sailing, real wear and tear takes its toll on the yacht.

The five year grace period is the reason I would go for a new yacht if I had the money. If you are going to do a four year circumnavigation, you could complete it in the five year grace period before things start to wear out.

Yes I agree with Maxingout specifically with the five year point, I have only experienced fair wear and tear in the last recent period, being the five to six year point, I have just replaced all my batteries, the bimini cover, ( it was and still is serviceable I am keeping it for a spare) it was just looking a bit faded, stuff like that. With respect to new or used I can afford a new craft, however I am well aware that this action will hardly prove the best investment of my life. Buying used is a challenge to find that right craft within one's budget and enough change to address any shortcomings, I think a five to six year old lightly used craft would be the sweet spot to take advantage of a substantial hit to the new cost and still have a modern relatively young craft. As always just my thoughts.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Mr Windy.

[DMCantor]

We bought new, and have been reasonably happy with our decision. The first year with a new boat is expensive, there are so many little (and big) things that you need or want to buy to get her equipped for cruising. For us, years 2-5 were very pleasant -- minimal maintenance, minimal costs, just hanging out in paradise. From year 6 on, she didn't really feel like a new boat anymore. No major problems, but the maintenance effort definitely went up. Failures of our electronics, and Raymarine wouldn't sell us a $30 part, but offered to recondition the chartplotter for 75% the cost of a new one (we bought a new Garmin instead). Portlights had to be rebedded, nav lights replaced. Nothing unusual, just normal wear and tear on a boat that is sailed often in challenging conditions.

So, if you think that buying new will save you from a lot of maintenance hassles, that is true for a short while, but not as long as you might think.

David
s/v Callisto

[roland stockham]

The answer is 'it depends', all marine gear is not equal. 'State of the art' electronic will be dated in three years and un-serviceable in 3-5 whereas something designed aimed at small commercial craft will still be fine in 10years. A good quality oversized winch will last till you get fed up with it (2 of mine are over 50yrs old and still perfect), cheap ones especially, if marginally spec'ed, can be giving trouble in 5yrs. The same applies to every system and the hull.

A good guide is the primary market the boat is aimed at. If it is charter fleet they do low mileage and are usually sold on at about 5yrs so the builder only has to work on the basis of 5yrs relatively trouble free plus still having some resale value. If it is primarily aimed at private sales to long distance/expedition sailors it will probably have double the life but not double the cost! If you plan on keeping the boat 20yrs don't buy a lightweight charter boat! If you plan on 3-5yrs ownership get the most popular stock production boat and don't add extras it will be far easier to sell. If buying used look for something solid, heavyweight and expensive (when new) Age will not matter but condition is everything.
The other thing to consider is your maintenance skills. If you plan on using yard services for maintenance then the newer boat begins to make more sense because yard fees can be the major cost in any upgrade/repair if you are not into DIY

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by LagunaRed

Another aspect of my decision is that it was a lot easier to get my wife to go along with the extended cruising plan with a new boat than a used one. That was worth the initial depreciation in my opinion.

The best reason I read so far for buying new. Happy wife happy life!

[Plutoi]

Originally Posted by peterp

I think a five to six year old lightly used craft would be the sweet spot to take advantage of a substantial hit to the new cost and still have a modern relatively young craft. As always just my thoughts.

I first thought of buying a new, customized monohaul with one of the major brands but soon realized the prices did not include cruising "gear" and the depreciation was very high and probably not worth it (for me.)

Then the question was how old?

It seems to me the sweet spot is 3-4 years old where the boat is still newish and had the most steep depreciation, especially if it now contains necessary cruising gear.

Not sure if 6-7 year old sailboats are worth the hassle. Sure they are cheaper than younger fleet but now you have to deal with a lot more equipment replacement (or soon after) which will add to the cost after purchase. There will also be much more sweat equity DIY and more downtime due to broken parts. Do the prices reflect this or is it more a straight line depreciation post 3-4rd year? What do you guys think?

Perhaps the best deals are the loaded 1-2 year old boats from a rich 'sailor' that decided a motor yacht was the way to go. 20+% off?!

Plutoi

[Krabimike]

I looked at a new 450S in Singapore. I wonder what the common discount is that a dealer gives on a new boat?
The amazing thing is the cost on the dealer list for shipping and commissioning was €85,000 ( it is actually put on a Ship and hauled to Singapore) compare to some of the Caribbean shipping and commissioning at €25,000 but it is sailed

Sent from my SM-N920C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

The answer is 'it depends', all marine gear is not equal. 'State of the art' electronic will be dated in three years and un-serviceable in 3-5 whereas something designed aimed at small commercial craft will still be fine in 10years. A good quality oversized winch will last till you get fed up with it (2 of mine are over 50yrs old and still perfect), cheap ones especially, if marginally spec'ed, can be giving trouble in 5yrs. The same applies to every system and the hull.

A good guide is the primary market the boat is aimed at. If it is charter fleet they do low mileage and are usually sold on at about 5yrs so the builder only has to work on the basis of 5yrs relatively trouble free plus still having some resale value. If it is primarily aimed at private sales to long distance/expedition sailors it will probably have double the life but not double the cost! If you plan on keeping the boat 20yrs don't buy a lightweight charter boat! If you plan on 3-5yrs ownership get the most popular stock production boat and don't add extras it will be far easier to sell. If buying used look for something solid, heavyweight and expensive (when new) Age will not matter but condition is everything.
The other thing to consider is your maintenance skills. If you plan on using yard services for maintenance then the newer boat begins to make more sense because yard fees can be the major cost in any upgrade/repair if you are not into DIY

This is a well thought out answer and you would be wise the heed this advise.