General Info: Customizing our FP Astréa 42

[spiv]

Originally Posted by Luc bulterys

Because I am still waiting for a quote, it is still not sure yet if I will continue with the Integrel[emoji768]. And that was the only reason to go for a 48V battery bank. To keep my options open, I decided to buy 3 WS160SPS-L panels. Together with the Sunpower panels, it will still give me a total output of 1560 Wp. A bit less than my initial setup, but still nice enough. And with only one panel in front of the traveler (for now), this will make positioning rather easy.

So, if I go for the Integrel with a 48V battery bank, I will connect these 3 160Wp panels in series to get around 71Vmpp max. If not, I can keep them all in parallel. In both cases, I expect to connect them to the integrated solar charge regulator of the Mass Combi Ultra.
I also hope that the daylight panels of Wattstunde will still perform acceptable if partly shaded, so the effect of being in series stays less important than for most other panels.

The Sunpower panels have 59Vmpp output and will be in parallel (no matter what choice I’ll make), and will be connected to a Mastervolt SCM60 MPPT-MB solar charge regulator.

Lou,
I had a Salina for 5y.
I didn't have such a high power solar system, but I had 9 flexible walk over panels on the roof.
You will find that not just you, but crew, sail maintenance and other trades will be walking on the roof, occasionally dropping a spanner or a shake from the top of the mast.
I'd suggest you reconsider your choice or rigid panels, flexible have come a long way from the ones I had.

Also I read that you are planning a s/s structure at the back to hold some more panels.
Try and find a Salina and check the rear sun bed/dinghy lift platform.
I found that a really good invention, not sure why FP never proposed on other cats, keeps the dinghy protected from the sun, it keeps it from swinging side to side when underway, and, since the sun bed is rarely used, you can install solar panels on it and occasionally put couscions on it, if someone really wants...

The other think I found is that I never had enough water with my 60l/h watermaker. My next install will be a motor driven 200l/h by Cruisers. They also supply hi-power alternators. Did you check they website?

I have just bought a 16yo L 380 and am about to start a major refit/upgrade, so I am very interested in what you are planning to do, even though I will be finished well before you start. However it still helps to read what others have researched.

[Luc bulterys]

Hi Stefano,

Interesting, your post.
If you are interested, you can find far more details on how I will do it, in the separate thread :
General Info Customizing our FP Astréa 42 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I found some pictures of the Salina sun bed/dinghy*lift*platform, you were referring to. If I want to go for more solar in the future, it is something to consider, indeed. It stays low enough for not blocking the view, but maybe too low for hitting your head when arriving by dinghy underneath?! That’s why I made my structure in a way that I can pivot these panels vertically, out of my way. But it is possible that I won’t do that once I am used to it, future will tell.
I like your idea of putting walkable panels under the cushions of the roof-sunbed. I share your idea that it won’t be used that much. And I heard that it’s not a good idea to leave the cushions there, because the attachment can’t prevent them to fly away in stronger winds ! And using it in the tropics, will be rather when the sun is already low, so at a time that is not very profitable anymore for power supply. I will definitely look further into that idea. I expect it could easily add an additional 4-500 Wp.

I would like to hear a bit more about your idea of a 60l/h*watermaker. How many were you on your boat? We never had a watermaker before, and did ocean crossings with less than 500L or an average of less than 25-30L a day for two, even three people. I won’t take the FP-option, but will have it installed ex-factory. Gives me more choice … But I did like the idea of running it directly on the batteries.

Enjoy your refit. Luc

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by spiv

Lou,
I had a Salina for 5y.
I didn't have such a high power solar system, but I had 9 flexible walk over panels on the roof.
You will find that not just you, but crew, sail maintenance and other trades will be walking on the roof, occasionally dropping a spanner or a shake from the top of the mast.
I'd suggest you reconsider your choice or rigid panels, flexible have come a long way from the ones I had.

Also I read that you are planning a s/s structure at the back to hold some more panels.
Try and find a Salina and check the rear sun bed/dinghy lift platform.
I found that a really good invention, not sure why FP never proposed on other cats, keeps the dinghy protected from the sun, it keeps it from swinging side to side when underway, and, since the sun bed is rarely used, you can install solar panels on it and occasionally put couscions on it, if someone really wants...

The other think I found is that I never had enough water with my 60l/h watermaker. My next install will be a motor driven 200l/h by Cruisers. They also supply hi-power alternators. Did you check they website?

I have just bought a 16yo L 380 and am about to start a major refit/upgrade, so I am very interested in what you are planning to do, even though I will be finished well before you start. However it still helps to read what others have researched.

I have a l 380 that I put 2 panels on over the davits. Getting the frame done was the hardest part of the project. The company that fabricated them wanted no part of the design. I did the measuring and made a drawing. Checked it about 8 times. Holds 280 watt x 2 panels. Good rule of thumb is to try to get as many ah as watts. If you can get more watts, great. I did not want to put panels on the hardtop.

[spiv]

Originally Posted by Luc bulterys

Hi Stefano,
I found some pictures of the Salina sun bed/dinghy*lift*platform, you were referring to. If I want to go for more solar in the future, it is something to consider, indeed. It stays low enough for not blocking the view, but maybe too low for hitting your head when arriving by dinghy underneath?! That’s why I made my structure in a way that I can pivot these panels vertically, out of my way. But it is possible that I won’t do that once I am used to it, future will tell.
........

I would like to hear a bit more about your idea of a 60l/h*watermaker. How many were you on your boat? We never had a watermaker before, and did ocean crossings with less than 500L or an average of less than 25-30L a day for two, even three people. I won’t take the FP-option, but will have it installed ex-factory. Gives me more choice … But I did like the idea of running it directly on the batteries.

Enjoy your refit. Luc

The Salina sunbed was high enough to allow you to get under without problems AND, to lift the dinghy out of the waves travelling under the bridgedeck at speed, never got it hit by a wave.

I did not like the 60l/h watermaker I had because we were always skimping on water.
My next will be 200l/h so I can have long showers and wash the salt of the boat (and gift some fresh water to cruisers without desal).
Motor driven, yes, I will use diesel, but I can make power at the same time do my washing etc etc.

[Luc bulterys]

Originally Posted by spiv

...
I did not like the 60l/h watermaker I had because we were always skimping on water.
My next will be 200l/h so I can have long showers and wash the salt of the boat (and gift some fresh water to cruisers without desal).
Motor driven, yes, I will use diesel, but I can make power at the same time do my washing etc etc.

Thanks for your comment. I will reconsider it. Aqua-Base has also a 105L on 12v. Still with the advantage of high efficiency and not necessarily needing the gen to run.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Luc bulterys

Thanks for your comment. I will reconsider it. Aqua-Base has also a 105L on 12v. Still with the advantage of high efficiency and not necessarily needing the gen to run.

we have a 100l duo unit with 220V and 12V motor, we run it on 12V and solar, never used yet the 220V...

[Luc bulterys]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

we have a 100l duo unit with 220V and 12V motor, we run it on 12V and solar, never used yet the 220V...

One more argument te go for it
Thanks !

[Luc bulterys]

In the last few weeks, I came to some changes, thanks to all the well-appreciated comments:

I definitely will reconsider the watermaker, as I stated above already.

More importantly, I finally have a quote for the Intergrel, and although we have to discuss more details, this is a go for me. And it has some consequences: For example, needing a 48v battery bank.
And instead of having a Mastervolt setup, I will probably change for a complete Victron setup. I see the advantages for the solar controllers, and the charger inverter, but I still look for some confirmation about the batteries… If someone uses the LFP-batteries from Victron, I would love to hear more about it.

I ordered my solar panels, exactly 2000Wp in total. I will install them in 3 groups, each group of similar panels, with its own MPPT solar controller charging the 48v bank. This has become my final solar setup:
- Sunpower X22-360 : 3x 360 Wp = 1080 Wp
59,1 Vmpp @ 18,27 A imp

- Wattstunde WS160SPS-L DAYLIGHT : 3x 160 Wp = 480 Wp
70,5 Vmpp @ 6,81 A imp
- Wattstunde WS110FX DAYLIGHT : 4x 110 Wp = 440 Wp
72,4 Vmpp @ 6,08 A imp
The last group are semi-flexibles that will be mounted on the sunbed (so covered when the cushions will be installed).

[spiv]

Originally Posted by Luc bulterys

Thanks for your comment. I will reconsider it. Aqua-Base has also a 105L on 12v. Still with the advantage of high efficiency and not necessarily needing the gen to run.

Luc,
After saying all what I said, reading other discussions on watermakers and doing some more research, I've changed my mind.....
I'm installing a Shenker "SMART 60"

• Capacity: 60 lit/h - Gal/h 15.8
• Power supply: 12 / 24 VDC o 230 VAC
• Consumption: 12/24 VDC 240 watt
• Weight: 31 Kg
• Membranes n°1 2,5" x 40"

At 240W, I can run it out of my solar for a couple of hours if I need to and have a much simpler installation.

[Luc bulterys]

Originally Posted by spiv

Luc,
After saying all what I said, reading other discussions on watermakers and doing some more research, I've changed my mind.....
I'm installing a Shenker "SMART 60"

• Capacity: 60 lit/h - Gal/h 15.8
• Power supply: 12 / 24 VDC o 230 VAC
• Consumption: 12/24 VDC 240 watt
• Weight: 31 Kg
• Membranes n°1 2,5" x 40"

At 240W, I can run it out of my solar for a couple of hours if I need to and have a much simpler installation.

Thanks for sharing it !!
Having the possibility of running it on the battery bank is indeed a big plus. Power consumption shouldn't be too much of a problem with enough solar etc.

[Luc bulterys]

And the decision for the batteries and generator has been taken too !

As I said before, I was considering a complete Mastervolt setup, but ended up with a complete Victron setup for multiple reasons:
• For the same price, I got more.
• As well for the solar controllers as for the charger/inverter, Mastervolt was far more limited than Victron (especially in the 48V range).
• Victron’s solar smart controllers have a nice advantage that all info can be sent to my smartphone.

About the setup itself, I share below my basic scheme of it, for those interested:

Our most important decision was, to go for the Integrel® generator of Triskel (UK). This means that we will have an alternator of 9kW installed on one of my Volvo’s 40hp. It means also that we will have a 48V battery bank, so all input will be at 48V either (solar, hydro generator, shore power).

Considering that our galley will be electric (cooktop 3,7kW and combi-oven 3,4kW), and the reversible airco needs 9kW if fully operating, I decided to go for the more powerful solution:
4 Victron 25.6V / 200Ah batteries in 2 groups of 48V. I could have gone for a less expensive solution, of course. And without the electrical galley, I probably would have done it with half of that power.
I just want to add, for those considering something similar, that it is well worth to look for price versus type of batteries. 4x 180ah batteries would have been fine too, but was more expensive because of the BMS.
Simular story with the charger inverter: I choose the Quattro 48V 10000W, but Victron has several alternatives here too. For me, although it is a big investment, it feels coherent with all the other decisions. And at the end, the total budget is still not that far from what I should have paid for all the FP options (airco, heating, extra battery, generator) as a far less complete setup. But before you consider the same, know that it took me already a lot of time negotiating and studying. And I expect that there will be a stressful after-market coordination waiting for me in La Rochelle later this year.

After the conversion from 48V to 12V, the Integrel system needs a small 12V buffer battery. But since FP delivers standard 3 AGM batteries 12V/200ah, I decided to keep these for the time being, giving an extra 600ah buffer in 12V, on top of the 400ah in 48V. Once I have to replace them, I could save weight by installing just one 12V battery. But in the meantime, we will have had enough time to evaluate the pros and cons of the entire system.

As always, all comments our welcome.
Luc

[dooleedooroo]

Luc bulterys,

Thanks for sharing your plan.
I am guessing that you compare the triskel generation option vs. just high power output alternator option.

Can you share the reason you went with triskel?

I like triskel generation since it is using existing engine and get rid of generator. But now with big solar power and big battery technology, I wonder I can go with just one high power alternator.

BTW, can you share approx. cost of triskel system?

[Luc bulterys]

Originally Posted by dooleedooroo

Luc bulterys,

Thanks for sharing your plan.
I am guessing that you compare the triskel generation option vs. just high power output alternator option.

Can you share the reason you went with triskel?

I like triskel generation since it is using existing engine and get rid of generator. But now with big solar power and big battery technology, I wonder I can go with just one high power alternator.

BTW, can you share approx. cost of triskel system?

Hi, In the beginning of this video, Nigel Calder explains the advantages of the Integrel over a traditional alternator better than I could do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6jMN2HTlmc&t=1s

About the costs, I didn't add them because it also depends the boat, engine etc. But to give you an idea: The system alone costs around 9000GBP + installation (VAT not included). For the full system, with 48kV/10kW LFP, charger/inverter 6kW, and a 12V/360ah, ... I got a quote close to 19000GBP, and almost 4000GBP for the installation in La Rochelle by Triskel Marine engineers (voyage and accommodation included). For the extra set LFP batteries and the 10kW inverter, like I did, you have to add another 10000GBP.
Since all prices are in GBP, the exchange rate could be important. With the Brexit issues going on, this rate is for € or $ quite interesting these days.
Hope this gives you a good idea of what to expect.

[VP and the Fox]

On the roof behind the main traveler (same position as FP but wider):
3 SUNPOWER X22-360 1080 Wp
Total length 468cm
Width 105cm
As far as my research is of any help, and if, for example, you don’t want to surpass the length of the FP-solar zone that much.

Hi Luc

I was looking at getting three SunPower X22-360 (or 370) panels behind the main traveller and mounting them on a frame but don't understand why there is a concern about surpassing the length of the solar zone?

I've seen it done by another Aussie couple on their Helia 44 Itiki but I realise the dimensions are different.

https://www.itiki.com.au/our-boat.html

Here is a link to the blog that explains their issues getting the frame fitted:

https://www.itiki.com.au/blog/welcom...rina-di-ragusa

Thanks! Ken

[Luc bulterys]

Quick answer from the AirPort in Santiago:
What I meant is, that starting in the middle of the roof, you lift the frame 5-6cm. But at the side your panels will be hanging at least 15cm above the roof there. Rather an aesthetic issue not technical.
Thanks for the interesting blog!
Luc