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Kettlewell · 26-03-2024, 14:48

Red flags are flying for me on this one. Sounds like several scams I have read about. I purchase nothing big that requires me to send cash prior to the closing paperwork being signed, and the keys to the car or boat handed over to me. And, if you meet this person somewhere to complete the sale have a trusted friend or two along.

DEAN2140 · 26-03-2024, 15:52

Very bold statements about maritime liens, based on what authority? Are you a maritime lawyer?

Montanan · 27-03-2024, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

Very bold statements about maritime liens, based on what authority? Are you a maritime lawyer?

An excellent guidance article regarding maritime liens is linked below:

https://www.marinetitle.com/library/maritime-boat-liens.htm

FYI: I inappropriately posted a too long snipet of such article yesterday and the moderators kindly and correctly deleted it to protect the CF from potential copyright infringement. My bad.

Thank you, CF Moderators.

**TrentePieds** · 27-03-2024, 17:16

HansTony:

To come back to your opening post:

Being from the UK you are perfectly familiar with a species of legal beagle called a "Notary Public", and with the fact that among the things they do for money, is hold funds in escrow (and so notify the seller of some costly chattel being traded) while the seller delivers a (valid) title document to the NP.

Only upon having received that title document and verified its validity does the NP release the buyer's funds to the seller and conclude the trade with bureaucratic knobs and handles.

A service well worth the money!

Although I found it difficult to believe, all those years ago when I first came to these shores, there really are such worthies even in Connecticut, and they can be bought.

I suggest very strongly that you buy one!

What you related about the seller in subsequent posts sounds EXTREMELY dodgy. And the world is full of boats. And dodgy sellers. If getting this particular boat is of earth-shaking importance for you. BUY AN NP!!!

All the best!

TrentePieds

Montanan · 27-03-2024, 17:41

TrientePeds

I am not familiar with a similar type of Notary Public in the USA.

I believe they are called civil law notary in Europe, of the sort referenced in this link

https://birdbuzz.nl/wp-content/uploa...-july-2014.pdf

"In the United States, a notary public is a person appointed by a state government, e.g., the governor, lieutenant governor, secretary of state, or in some cases the state legislature, and whose primary role is to serve the public as an impartial witness when important documents are signed. Since the notary is a state officer, a notary's duties may vary widely from state to state and in most cases, a notary is barred from acting outside his or her home state unless they have a commission there as well."

They basically say they witnessed someone sign something or that the person said they signed the document, and that they have gained personal knowledge that the person is who they are signing to be [e.g., looked at your ID, if they don't know you personally but even if they do know you they will almost always ask for your ID and record the document # in their record book.]

Per Wiki:

"Notaries in the United States are much less closely regulated than notaries in most other common-law countries, typically because U.S. notaries have little legal authority. In the United States, a lay notary may not offer legal advice or prepare documents – except in Louisiana and Puerto Rico – and in most cases cannot recommend how a person should sign a document or what type of notarization is necessary. There are some exceptions; for example, Florida notaries may take affidavits, draft inventories of safe deposit boxes, draft protests for payment of dishonored checks and promissory notes, and solemnize marriages. In most states, a notary can also certify or attest a copy or facsimile.

The most common notarial acts in the United States are the taking of acknowledgements and oaths. Many professions may require a person to double as a notary public, which is why US court reporters are often notaries, as this enables them to swear in witnesses (deponents) when they are taking depositions; secretaries, bankers, and some lawyers are commonly notaries public. Despite their limited role, some American notaries may also perform a number of far-ranging acts not generally found anywhere else. Depending on the jurisdiction, they may: take depositions, certify any and all petitions (ME), witness third-party absentee ballots (ME), provide no-impediment marriage licenses, solemnize civil marriages (ME, FL, SC, & AL (as of August 2019)), witness the opening of a safe deposit box or safe and take an official inventory of its contents, take a renunciation of dower or inheritance (SC), and so on."

The form of the notary public certificate varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but will be similar to the following:

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this ______ day of ___________, 20__ personally appeared _________________________, to me well known to be the person who executed the foregoing instrument, and he/she acknowledged before me that he/she executed the same as his/her voluntary act and deed.

**Jammer** · 27-03-2024, 17:43

Be careful. Notary requirements in the USA vary from state to state. In many states if you have a verifiable street address that you've lived at for at least two consecutive weeks, no criminal history, and $50, you can be a notary.

Reeve21 · 27-03-2024, 17:54

Notaries do not function as escrow agents in Connecticut.

A documentation company, a broker or an attorney all have trust (escrow) accounts and might be willing to perform this service.

**TrentePieds** · 27-03-2024, 18:20

Ah! Yet another significant difference between UK and Canadian Law and US law.

I thank you for making things so wonderfully clear :-)

That I've triggered a rectifying response on so important a matter, and having been factually wrong with so excellent a result, pleases me. :-)

One of my constant refrains is that words, including labels, must be used with precision. Another of my refrains is that American is NOT English, although many of us understand a good deal of American because it uses so many words borrowed from English :-)!

Cheers

TP

Montanan · 27-03-2024, 18:37

Like most every service industries there are now major online escrow companies.

Here is one.
https://www.escrow.com/learn-more/ho...ks/boat-escrow

Reviews of Escrow.com services:
https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/escrow.com

Recommend that one vet any escrow company that one chooses to use.
Some states require licenses to be an escrow officer.

I suspect it would be easy to obtain the services of an attorney in Connecticut to provide the closing agent escrow.

Connecticut has recently required that the closing agent of all real property sales be a licensed attorney. A boat is easier than a home to close.

My Best Man and roommate for seven years is a unique real estate broker; he is the only active real estate broker licensed in all 50 States and the District of Columbia. He is the "registered broker" for one of the largest online real estate listing / brokerages, but of course he doesn't get personally involved in any of the closings, just gets a small commission for the use of his licenses. He is also licensed for a couple of provinces of Canada.
He has personally handled billions of dollars of real estate for his clients, not counting his "online" side hustle with the huge market making real estate company, that cumulatively has to be mega-billions. He has done quite well for himself.

He has also been asked to be the broker of record for one of the major rental online agency firms but there is a possible conflict of interest between the real estate rental and the sales brokerages so he has declined to be the broker of record for the rentals.

It took him an entire year to be tested and qualify in all 50 States. There are many nuances of law differences between the States. It is kind of similar to a lawyer having become a member of the Bar for every state. Requires considerable continuing education to remain qualified and to keep abreast of the State law changes.

Montanan · 28-03-2024, 07:21

HansTony, since you are from the UK, one best check both the Issued Date and the Expired Date of all your passports.

The EU has implemented regulations that cause a passport that was issued more than 10 years prior to be considered invalid thus not able to be used to for entry.

The USA and most all countries require that the expiration date of the passports be at least 6 months after the date of entry [the reason being that the passport needs to remain valid for the person to be able to depart the country to which they have been granted temporary visitation privileges].

It seems that there are about 2.4 million Brits whose passports have date issues with the EU.

Brexit has made for challenges, now that the UK is just another third country status.

Could be very problematic to find that one can't depart the UK when planned due to an out of date passport. Travel plans cancelled, flight and lodging expenses, missing key life events [weddings, funerals, graduations].

Reference article linked here:

Barred from Europe: 2.4m Brits caught in post-Brexit passport chaos

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...0d05c0d8&ei=81

"Millions of Britons are barred from entering the EU by post-Brexit passport rules that are set to cause chaos over the Easter holidays.

With the getaway starting in earnest on Thursday, an estimated 2.4 million travellers have documents that can’t be used for trips to the EU because of the change in expiry requirements.
. . .

Since Brexit, British passports must have an issue date less than 10 years old on the day of departure to the EU, and must have at least three months left before their expiry date on the intended day of return. But millions of passports issued prior to September 2018 have longer validity periods."

Montanan · 28-03-2024, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Ah! Yet another significant difference between UK and Canadian Law and US law.

I thank you for making things so wonderfully clear :-)

That I've triggered a rectifying response on so important a matter, and having been factually wrong with so excellent a result, pleases me. :-)

One of my constant refrains is that words, including labels, must be used with precision. Another of my refrains is that American is NOT English, although many of us understand a good deal of American because it uses so many words borrowed from English :-)!

Cheers

TP

Trente since we Yanks have "borrowed" so many words from the English, might you being needing them to be returned so as to be able to communicate in proper English?

We could lend you some words, phrases and corrected pronunciations of Old English, and additions to the vocabulary, such as:

Wor-cester-shire Please just say it like it is spelled

American vs. British:

Soccer vs. Football
French fries/fries vs. chips
cotton candy vs. candyfloss
apartment vs. flat
garbage vs. rubbish
cookie vs. biscuit
green thumb vs. green fingers
parking lot vs. car park
pants vs. trousers
windshield vs. windscreen
john vs. loo
A John Doe vs. a John Smith

And let us not note the many examples of spelling differences one may encounter:

-our (British) vs. -or (American)

Examples: colour vs. color, armour vs. armor, flavour vs. flavor

-ise or -ize (British) vs. only -ize (American)

Examples: apologise vs. apologize, fantasise vs. fantasize, idolise vs. idolize

-yse (British) vs. –yze (American)

Examples: analyse vs. analyze, paralyse vs. paralyze

Doubling the L in a verb conjugation (British) vs. keeping the single L (American)

Examples: travelled vs. traveled, labelling vs. labeling

AE (British) vs. E (American)

Examples: leukaemia vs. leukemia, paediatrics vs. pediatrics

-ence (British) vs. -ense (American)

Examples: defence vs. defense

only -ogue (British) vs. -og or -ogue (American)

Examples: catalogue vs. catalog, dialogue vs. dialog

-re (British) vs. -er (American)

Examples: metre vs. meter, lustre vs. luster

In addition to these common patterns, some specific words are spelled differently in American and British English. Some examples include airplane (the first in each pair is the common American term) and aeroplane, gray and grey, tire and tyre, and mold and mould.

Y'all have a peculiar way of pronouncing schedule and lieutenant.

And never understood why the English warning signs at the Petrol Stations state - Inflammable instead of Flammable.

Trick question: both flammable and inflammable are correct, as they both mean "capable of being easily ignited and of burning quickly." This makes no sense to the Modern English READ YANK speaker. In English, we READ BRITS think of in- as a prefix that means "not": inactive means "not active," inconclusive means "not conclusive," inconsiderate means "not considerate." Therefore, inflammable should mean "not flammable."

Flammable vs. Inflammable
Both words mean the same thing, but one of them is bound to confuse most people.

What to Know
The Latin words inflammare (“to cause to catch fire”) and flammare (“to catch fire”) came into English at different times to become the synonyms inflammable and flammable. Although it seems logical that inflammable might mean “not flammable,” the word actually means the opposite, because the in- prefix of inflammable comes from the Latin word meaning “in” or “into.” Using nonflammable is one way to ensure clarity.

I recall my boss from New York City, mistakenly filling his gasoline powered car with Derv instead of Petrol before traveling from Chester to Edenborough. He didn't get but a few miles / kilometers before the engine started bucking and black smoke emitting from the exhaust, so he returned to the Petrol Station. The Petrol Station attendant kindly siphoned out the Derv and refilled the vehicle with Petrol and they got back on their way with a bit of a hesitant engine for the first bit of distance.

There is no such thing as Petrol or Derv in America.

Diesel-Engined Road Vehicle, yep we got those but that is not an expression one will ever hear or read.

And as to driving, well I'll just leave with that there is a Right-side of a roadway and an Improper-side of a roadway.

Oh, and as to UK money well it is decidedly heavy if you carry a lot of bills.

**boatman61** · 28-03-2024, 08:25

When I bought a boat (private sale) in North Carolina the trouble I ran into was the bank manager had no idea what an International Bank Draft was and things were held up as it had to be diverted to Bank of America for clearance.. do not count on bank managers being 'Au Fait' with international banking.
I arranged for the owners bank to hold the funds once cleared and the owner and I went to the bank and completed the sales form in the managers office with her signing as witness along with the banks stamp.. the money was then transfered into the sellers account.
Regarding B1/B2 visas, ignore the post referring to them, they do not apply.
You come in on an ESTA, buy your boat and sail happily where you want in the US with a cruising permit your only restriction being your 90 day visa.
The boat itself can stay indefinitely in the country.. even UK flagged.
You can come and go on an ESTA as many times as you wish.. go home for 2 weeks and return for another 90 days or, try for an extension.
The only time you will need a B1/B2 is if you leave the country.. for example hop over to the Bahamas.. that takes you into non ESTA territory.

**TrentePieds** · 28-03-2024, 08:54

Good job, Montanan :-0)!

I'm sure we've convinced HansTony, well and truly, that to make an expensive purchase from a total stranger without the intervention of an escrow service is daft/crazy. And that was the object of the exercise :-)

We all know that it's the FUNCTION, that matters - not the label.

Since you are obviously into words/languages you are already aware of the distinction between the UK solicitors and barristers. You made reference to Dutch escrow services. So here is something even more obscure for you:

In Danish there is a verb "at deponere". One would think that the translation to English is straight-forward - "to deposit" - and so it is in many contexts. But it also means quite specifically "to place in escrow".

Now I haven't lived in Denmark for nearly three score years and ten, but when I did, people serving the notary function and providing escrow services obviously had to have requisite qualifications and be responsible to a professional organization. One knew that they were "legit" by their name being suffixed by the word: "Statsautoriseret" - "state authorized", but even so there was merit in checking for current status of the person's membership in the relevant professional organization.

Just like here :-)

TP