Walkie Talkie's

[MicHughV]

I was searching around on the internet and came across a site advertising walkie talkie's so started sniffing around on these.
As a youngster I had these.

I know that most every sailor in the world has a handheld vhf to stay in touch with the mothership or other sailors, etc, but conversations are prone to be overheard, etc and there are only a few frequencies available for " talking"

It occurred to me that a walkie talkie radio might be a solution here for those couples wanting to stay in touch while one was ashore and so on. There are dozens and dozens of models available for all types of features.

On a whim, I got the cheapest one's I could find....about $20....for an experiment. They tout a 3 mile range over open water, have about 20 channels for use, plus some or other thing to have a " secret" channel, a feature I have not explored yet.

These particular one's have a Li-on bat and can be charged from most any source. Fully charged, it will last for days. Battery operated one's or dual bat/li-on charging are also available.

Curious to know if this will ever catch on in the sailing community.

[wrwakefield]

We keep a few [5; lost 1 over the years] FSR GMRS radios [Thanks Jammer!] on board for years for the same purpose. They work great.

Wonderful to issue to guests whether they are going kayaking or venturing onto land.

About 15 years ago, we color coded ours with a wrap of different colored electrical tape on each antenna [useful when wanting to hail someone anonymously; original tape still going strong…]

For distance use when separated, our protocol is to start/ hail first on a specified low power channel (e.g., FSR GMRS 13; 1 watt- for better battery life) then, if unsuccessful raising the other party(ies), switch to a specified high power channel (e.g.., FSR GMRS 14; 5 watts) and try again… [This works best with a comms schedule- e.g., check in every 30 mins.]

We have fun making up bogus call signs: Charley-Alpha-Kilo-Oscar, this is Charley-Alpha-Kilo-Bravo [Candy-Ass Kayaker Orange (antenna tape), this is … Blue…]

Note: Last I knew [in the US anyway] technically you need an FCC license to use the high power FSR GMRS channels, but that may have changed.

But radios are half - duplex [only one can speak at a time] even if VOX [voice activation] is used. That is very adequate for most of our use cases, and what VHF radio users are used to.

But for ‘real time’ comms on the boat [e.g., anchoring, hauling anchor, mooring, etc. in sporty conditions] we prefer full-duplex [you can still hear the other person if you are talking- like a phone; no PTT (push-to-talk) button.]. Nothing missed that way…

Enjoy your new radios!

Cheers, Bill

[JBP]

I think they are great when camping or caravaning. Makes it easy to ask to stop at the next rest area or whatever. As I recall there are two basic kinds other than the toys. FRS Family Radio System requires no license and works up to a mile ish. GMRS General Mobile Radio Service has more power, up to 5 miles and more channels but does require a license in the US, but not in Canada last I heard.
Even though I have a few of them, I've never found a use while sailing. I suppose if you have people on shore and on board, but I already have a handheld VHF that fits that need.

[Jammer]

Many people do use them. There are several technologies authorized in the USA:

FRS - These operate in the 462-467 MHz UHF band with a maximum of 2 watts output power. There is a regulatory requirement for a non-removable antenna. These are inexpensive and are usually poor quality. Poor quality means that the audio volume is insufficient, audio is unclear, battery life is poor, controls are poorly designed, the radios aren't sufficiently sealed against water or dust (even if claimed to be IP67), and durability is poor. I've had some. Practical range is under a mile and they won't penetrate hills or multiple walls.

They are useful for things like communicating with a spotter when backing up a trailer, or coordinating with someone on another floor of a house when running pipe or wiring, or calling your kids to dinner from the pool deck.

GMRS is the same thing only with a few more channels and more power. A license is required but is easy to get -- you fill out a form and send in a modest fee and you and your immediate family are all licensed. Better radios are available than for FRS but there's still quite a lot of junk. A removable antenna is allowed which means that a higher performance one can be substituted. GMRS car or boat mounted radios that operate on 12vdc are available that have significantly higher power levels.

900 MHz ISM band radios are available. Quality is still spotty but better than FRS. No license required. These do better inside buildings and cities but less well in wide open spaces. People use them in malls and on cruise ships. Something to consider.

There are also MURS radios which operate in channels near the marine band with similar performance. They can be lawfully used in situations where the marine band cannot be used, such as between two people ashore.

[Jammer]

Anyway, we've used most of these (and their amateur radio equivalents) on the water. There are several common lessons across technologies to keep in mind:

- Radio quality is a big deal. If you can't hear the radio over ambient noise (wind/engine/road/whatever) it does no good. If the battery doesn't last all day, it does no good. For activities on and near the water, the radio has to be waterproof.

- Useful range is short. Between boats on the water in sight of each other, you get 1-2 miles, maybe a little more. Between canoes on a river with intervening trees and terrain, you maybe get 1 mile.

- International use is problematic depending on the country and band. MURS is USA-only. Canada allows FRS and GMRS. Mexico and most other countries do not allow any of these, and have public safety (police) users on these frequencies at least in some cities, making it unwise to ignore the rules. I am not aware of any practical problems with 900 MHz.

- While conversations may be more discreet than on marine band because fewer people are listening, they are not encrypted or secure, even with the various "privacy code" type systems.

[Jammer]

Anyway we use the Standard Horizon HX380 which is a marine band handheld transceiver that can also be programmed with other VHF channels.

I have some 2 meter amateur radio channels programmed in ours as I hold the license for that.

While it is technically possible to program MURS channels into these radios, I could never recommend that since FCC regulations don't allow use of marine radios on the MURS service. That is unfortunate since the HX380 is a high-quality radio, truly submersible, rugged, good sound quality, etc. We do use them on the marine channels while canoeing, which is a fairly demanding use case due to the distances.

[Jammer]

I think if I were shopping today I'd look at the Motorola DLR1020 for this. Nice 900 MHz radio, not claimed to be waterproof but probably has some water resistance in practice, rugged.

[Jebtrois]

We use them all the time...when boating, when hiking, 4 wheeling, when skiing as long as we agree to stay on the same side of a mountain.

[Kettlewell]

We used to use them before we all got cellphones that have much greater range, are private, and have many other uses. Sure, there are areas where cellphone reception is poor, and they might be useful there.

[MicHughV]

Interesting comments. I have little experience with these things. $20 for two of them seemed worthy of an experiment.
Cell phones are great, if there is a tower around.
Though I hold an extra class ham license, my wife has no interest in ham radio, besides, handheld ham radios can be pricey, and complicated to use for a newbie.

So far, these little walkie talkies are hitting all the right spots. Audio is good, operation is simple, and so far, 1/2 mile range has not been a problem, which is likely the max. range they will get used at.

Will give it a go for a while and see how it goes. They are unlikely to stay on all day, maybe an hour/day every so often.

[wholybee]

I used to have some cheap FRS radios on board. They were junk. They used AAA batteries that were always dead when we needed them, and just about every problem Jammer mentioned they had. They would be good for kids to play with the same way I used to play with walkie talkies when I was a kid. But not good for anything more.

[ohgary]

Keep in mind, Most of the walkie talkies that have been discussed would only be legal in the US and Canada. FRS/MURS/GMRS are US and Canadian only. Radio's from UK under PMR label would only be legal in UK & European Unions countries. Marine Radios are only legal on your boat, not ashore without a shore license (which I am sure most dont have or can get).

Be careful. A frequency legal in US may be in middle of a police band in another country.

[seaexplorer]

Radios (of any type) that are included on your vessel's radio licence can be used legally in ANY country that follows ITU rules (almost everyone) for ANY communications related to the operation of the vessel. This includes ship to shore parties, tenders etc and could even include between shore parties if comms were related to operation of vessel.

The radio licence is issued by your flag country and authorises you to use those radios for purposed related to the operation of your vessel. ITU rules require mutual respect of these licences.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I used to have some cheap FRS radios on board. They were junk. They used AAA batteries that were always dead when we needed them, and just about every problem Jammer mentioned they had. They would be good for kids to play with the same way I used to play with walkie talkies when I was a kid. But not good for anything more.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same ones I've had lying around.
One could put in brand new batteries, let them not be used or even turned on, and a few weeks later the batteries were flat.


The only way to use them is keep the batteries OUT of the radio until you actually want to use them, and when done, REMOVE the batteries from the radio.
I kept each one in a ziploc bag in that condition, which made them more trouble than they were worth.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by seaexplorer

Radios (of any type) that are included on your vessel's radio licence can be used legally in ANY country that follows ITU rules (almost everyone) for ANY communications related to the operation of the vessel. This includes ship to shore parties, tenders etc and could even include between shore parties if comms were related to operation of vessel.

The radio licence is issued by your flag country and authorises you to use those radios for purposed related to the operation of your vessel. ITU rules require mutual respect of these licences.

Be careful. While ITU rules require that countries respect each others' licenses just as they would their own, there are limitations on the scope of radio operations off-vessel that are permitted. These limitations vary by country. For the USA, portable VHF ("associated ship units" in FCC jargon) can only be used adjacent to a waterway such as on docks and beaches. See FCC docket 14-26, III.G.27 for the FCC's discussion and rationale (https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachme...C-16-119A1.pdf). The final rule is in 47 CFR 80.115.