Starlink + T-Mobile: A new option for global messaging?

[Seafarer7]

Starlink and T-Mobile just announced a technology partnership that appears to provide (near) global messaging coverage, potentially rivaling current incumbents such as Garmin InReach.

Technically, the V2 Starlink satellites will carry a PCS-antenna, acting as 'cell-towers in space', enabling regular T-Mobile phones to connect from anywhere over satellite.

From what T-Mobile's CEO said, it appears coverage will extend over not just the continent but 'large swarths' of the ocean.

Would be interesting to know if this service can serve transoceanic sailors (for at least a low bandwidth channel to communicate and get weather)

[shimari]

Here are some of the details

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/25/2...bile-messaging

[clamshack]

Texting, email, maybe voice in 2023. Using the phone’s existing hardware. This will cut out the need for inReach or Spot type devices. I don’t think it will replace Iridium yet. This is all assuming you have T-Mobile, but don’t have an existing Starlink device.

[wholybee]

"By limiting it to certain messages and services, as well as only in places that don't currently have cellular connectivity, it could use a more intermittent connection for "basic" coverage, although you might have to wait 30 minutes for a message to go through."

If you might have to wait 30 minutes for a message to go through, I don't think it is any replacement at all for an inreach.

The article also mentions that while it uses Starlink's Satellites, because it uses T-mobiles frequencies it can only operate where t-mobile is licensed-within the United States. So it won't work offshore or in other countries.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by clamshack

Texting, email, maybe voice in 2023. Using the phone’s existing hardware. This will cut out the need for inReach or Spot type devices. I don’t think it will replace Iridium yet. This is all assuming you have T-Mobile, but don’t have an existing Starlink device.

They mentioned they want other carriers to join in. I have been trying to communicate with a friend of mine in the Pacific Northwest on his Iridium. Quite frankly, it sucks! I think this in its lowest form will replace Iridium.

[Seafarer7]

Originally Posted by wholybee

"By limiting it to certain messages and services, as well as only in places that don't currently have cellular connectivity, it could use a more intermittent connection for "basic" coverage, although you might have to wait 30 minutes for a message to go through."

If you might have to wait 30 minutes for a message to go through, I don't think it is any replacement at all for an inreach.

The “30 minute wait” reference was likely taken out of context by that article: during the live presentation Elon, in response to a question, mentioned a 30-mins worst case initial scenario when only one V2 satellite was in operation. T-Mobile CEO subsequently clarified that the service will be real time when fully operational.

[Idaho]

Waiting 30 minutes in a liferaft for your message to send is nothing, compared to potential months of privation.

It is absurd to immediately dismiss this tech because of such a short time limitation.

This could definitely work for me. I will be tracking its progress.

[clamshack]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

They mentioned they want other carriers to join in. I have been trying to communicate with a friend of mine in the Pacific Northwest on his Iridium. Quite frankly, it sucks! I think this in its lowest form will replace Iridium.

Iridium can download data, from a service, at what is today very slow speeds. As an example you can use PredictWind’s Offshore app to update weather etc. That’s the part I don’t think will be replaced, in the next year at least, by the Starlink/T-Mobile solution.

Saying that we’ll just have to wait and see. It’s a step in the right direction. It would be great to text offshore, but there may be regulatory issues. Starlink doesn’t really care too much about regulators, but T-Mobile does. They have roaming agreements in 100’s of countries that are valuable to them.

[Brian.D]

Ground based cell frequencies are not the same as space based frequencies. I suspect that current phones will not work with this new service. One may have to purchase a cell phone that has the technology to operate in the space based frequency band.

I wouldn't get too overly excited yet.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

Ground based cell frequencies are not the same as space based frequencies. I suspect that current phones will not work with this new service. One may have to purchase a cell phone that has the technology to operate in the space based frequency band.

I wouldn't get too overly excited yet.

Everything I've seen so far indicates this will use frequency bands T-Mobile already uses, meaning most modern phones will already support them.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by wholybee

If you might have to wait 30 minutes for a message to go through, I don't think it is any replacement at all for an inreach.

InReach has the same limitation. It "can" take up to 30 minutes for a message to go through. I've had it take probably 15-20 minutes, and it's not unusual to wait 5 or 10.

It won't break my heart to see Garmin lose this market niche. They haven't done any favors for DeLorme InReach customers, or for that matter customers or employees of any of the companies they bought up just to stifle competition.

[clamshack]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

Ground based cell frequencies are not the same as space based frequencies. I suspect that current phones will not work with this new service. One may have to purchase a cell phone that has the technology to operate in the space based frequency band.

I wouldn't get too overly excited yet.

Is this a regulatory observation or technical?

[Seafarer7]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

Ground based cell frequencies are not the same as space based frequencies. I suspect that current phones will not work with this new service. One may have to purchase a cell phone that has the technology to operate in the space based frequency band.

I wouldn't get too overly excited yet.

In this collaboration the frequencies used by space are exactly same as existing ground-based frequencies: ie T-Mobile’s mid-band PCS spectrum, ensuring compatibility with T-mobile phones in existence today.

The satellite simply appears as a cell tower to the phone, so no hardware changes there.

The major technical innovation here is around the new PCS antennas being placed onto the V2 Starlink satellites, in addition to their existing antennas and laser links used for regular Starlink service. These new PCS antennas are large (15’ x 15’) phases array type antennas integrated into the V2 birds in a manner capable of handling the large Doppler shifts that come from flying a cell base station in low earth orbit.

[bdgWesternMass]

My understanding is that the V2 satellite requires the new rocket. Is this still true?

[Seafarer7]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

My understanding is that the V2 satellite requires the new rocket. Is this still true?

Partially so. Plans are being made for a “mini-V2” that can be launched from the existing Falcon 9s, in case of Starship delays. The mini-V2s are technically identical (spec-wise) to regular V2s, just modified to fit the falcon 9s. Mini V2s should allow the plan to go ahead regardless of Starship delays.