Reasonable SSB/email starter pack?

[suiramor]

I am new to hamradio; just passed my general license but otherwise my only experience was listening to Radio Liberty in my younger years. I am looking to explore using HF radio for, in order of priority: 1) getting gribb files and other email 2) emergency comms 3) connection with other sailors in an offshore setting. I am a bit loathe to spend $5000 (quoting Pizzazz from another thread) on something I have no experience with. What should I be looking for in terms of equipment that would allow me to get some experience while still in the near-coastal waters for the next year or so? (the local hamradio club is trying to find some local folks with experience in the marine space as well; I know of sat phone options and plan on using one as backup for the other).

[hjohnson]

Originally Posted by suiramor

I am new to hamradio; just passed my general license but otherwise my only experience was listening to Radio Liberty in my younger years. I am looking to explore using HF radio for, in order of priority: 1) getting gribb files and other email 2) emergency comms 3) connection with other sailors in an offshore setting. I am a bit loathe to spend $5000 (quoting Pizzazz from another thread) on something I have no experience with. What should I be looking for in terms of equipment that would allow me to get some experience while still in the near-coastal waters for the next year or so? (the local hamradio club is trying to find some local folks with experience in the marine space as well; I know of sat phone options and plan on using one as backup for the other).

Given the absurd cost of the Pactor modem, I wouldn't bother with SailMail. The reliability isn't as good as an IridiumGo, and the price is just obscene. It would have been fine had they switched over to any one of the soundcard modes that are available. But they've doggedly stuck with an outdated technology. I say this as an amateur radio operator myself.

The other thing you have to consider is that, in theory at least, with the SSB version of SailMail you're limited to 90 minutes of utilization a week. at the low data rates over HF/MF, that's not a whole lot of data, or email.

SO yeah, if it was me, I'd get the SSB/HF radio, but realistically use it for the hobby side of things, rather than as an actual tool.

[Brian.D]

As you are well aware, Ham Radio cannot be used for business related communications. This includes emails. Only health and welfare, of letting someone know you have arrived/departed a destination. Now, with that...

Look for a used HF rig on Ebay or your local area. The Kenwood TS-50 is a nice little rig. It is small and will fit just about anywhere on the boat. Or maybe a rig that has a detachable face so the actual radio unit can be stowed somewhere else, maybe near the tuner.

For the tuner, you can use just about any auto tuner that is secured in a watertight box. Power the tuner externally, should be on the same fuse as the radio so you do not put excessive load on the battery.

Antenna can be either a single band dipole (no tuner required) or a 23' wire from the output of the tuner to the the top of the mast.

For data, WinLink Express with VARA TNC will get you email and GRIB files.

This is just a little info for getting on the air on NON-MARINE band. Otherwise, if you want to use marine bands, just the sticky threads above. Now, before getting all this on the boat, set it up at home so you know it works. Then put it on the boat and if anything goes awry, you at least know it worked before.

All this JMHO. Good luck! And enjoy the challenge of SSB on a boat.

[suiramor]

Thanks you both. Just to continue manifesting my ignorance: is tuner separate from the transceiver (say the Kenwood you mention)? I do have an existing backstay on the boat (+-50ft with isolators on either end) - are you saying I need a separate tuner for that as well? How do I choose that?
I do see @hjohnson's point re cost of Pactor so perhaps I should just explore voice comms first. Maybe some other options for email will show up by the time I am done (I was not planning to use email for business; I assume grib files are not business but my welfare).

[El Pinguino]

Second hand Pactors are cheap enough - they turn up on eBay for about $300.
Second hand HF? Sniff around and see if you can find an IC-706Mk2G. https://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/3450.html or either a new or used 718 https://www.universal-radio.com/used/sold584.html
LDG does good tuners at a good price https://ldgelectronics.com/products/desktop/Z-100A/
So all up your on air for under $1000.
Although I am a licensed ham I use sailmail on the marine bands for gribs, better coverage where I sail.

[alctel]

I actually have a 706 radio with an AH-4 tuner for sale with a spare head and mic for the radio, send me a PM if interested

Would probably let it go for not much, it's just kicking around my boat at the moment (came with the boat, I had brought my M802 over from my old boat)

[Brian.D]

Most tuners supplied by OEM or Ham gear are not broad enough to tune really wacky length antennas. It seems the MFJ and/or LDG tuners handle these antennas the best. When I say wacky, I mean the impedances that are found on "random" length wire antennas. As for your backstay that is already setup for SSB, go ahead and use that.

From the output of the antenna tuner, you will connect a GTO-15 insulated wire to the base of the backstay just above the insulator. GTO-15 looks like coax but it is not. So, don't use coax to make the connection. The GTO-15 connected to the tuner is very much part of the antenna system.

The Icoms, 718 or 706 are excellent choices. I have an Icom IC-707 Ham rig which has no bells or whistles. It is very much a simple rig just like the Kenwood TS-50S.

Pactor is good, but like I mentioned I use Winlink Express and VARA TNC which all reside on the laptop. This can be connect directly to the rig, or you can use USB sound card like the Signalinks USB sound card. Works great.

JMHO

[MicHughV]

My advice.....from all your questions....is to find a local Ham Club....most any town has one.... and most Hams will be more than willing to help you out.....or get a knowledgeable sailor to explain to you.
Asking some random questions here is not going to serve you much, though there are quite a number of knowledgeable Hams on this forum .....there are 100's of ways to do this...you need someone to "show you the ropes" so to speak..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by suiramor

I am new to hamradio; just passed my general license but otherwise my only experience was listening to Radio Liberty in my younger years. I am looking to explore using HF radio for, in order of priority: 1) getting gribb files and other email 2) emergency comms 3) connection with other sailors in an offshore setting. I am a bit loathe to spend $5000 (quoting Pizzazz from another thread) on something I have no experience with. What should I be looking for in terms of equipment that would allow me to get some experience while still in the near-coastal waters for the next year or so? (the local hamradio club is trying to find some local folks with experience in the marine space as well; I know of sat phone options and plan on using one as backup for the other).

As others have said -- used Pactor II (with Pactor III unlock), and some used Icom HF marine rig, used tuner, and you're good to go. You can do it for under a boat buck if you look long and hard enough.


But note that if you have a U.S. license you can't use Winlink for any kind of email except to other hams. You can get gribs and other useful docs through SailDocs, but forget email. For that you need a SailMail subscription which is fairly costly for 90 minutes a week of very very slow connections.


I love radio, and I hate to say this, but for GRIBs, other weather stuff, and emails, Iridium Go! is a lot more useful and practical. The gear is under a grand (even less used), unlimited data which JUST WORKS without the fiddling of HF radio, for $139 a month, which unlike SailMail you can turn off whenever you want.


I have all the gear, and I was using Pactor III and Winlink for gribs last summer, but I missed being able to send and receive emails after the ridiculous rules change. Also it's quite laborious trying different stations until you get a decent connection, then hoping to keep the connection long enough to load the file. I'm either going to get a European license this year to solve the email problem, or I'm going back to Go!


If you do get that far with HF radio, one bit of advice -- don't be tempted to save money on the Pactor TNC. It's a brilliant device worth every penny compared to sound card approaches, much easier to use, integrated with the email clients, with lots of functions, much better connections. Best of all is Pactor IV but on a budget Pactor III works, and is available for reasonable money used. I never bothered to upgrade mine.

[wsmurdoch]

I can't call this advice as my experience is limited. I have only done this and no more.

I read the ARRL books a little each night on the boat... all three. No better sleep aid has ever been invented. That done, I passed all three licensing tests at one sitting. On ebay I found an Icom IC-M710 and its AT-130 tuner both new in their boxes with Defender stickers on them at a great price. I installed them on my boat following Icom's, Jim Coreman's, Stan Honey's, KA4WJS's, and Bill Trayfors' instructions. Following winlink.org I added a SignalinkUSB sound card and connected it to a laptop PC. As a amateur operator on the east coast of the US and in the Bahamas, I have used the system to get NOAA weather (voice, text, and fax [seaTTY]), send daily position reports, make daily contact with the Waterway Radio Cruising Club, and using Vera Winlink send our daughters and a few friends email when we do not have cell service. On the marine bands I get marine weather by both fax and voice, sometimes follow the cruiseheimers net, and chat with other cruisers out of VHF range.

Bill
AK4PO
WDD6351
AK4PO/C6A

[Brian.D]

Dockhead, might have to disagree with your comment about WinLink Express only sending emails to hams. I have sent emails to family and friends via WinLink Express. The only restriction is that imposed by the FCC on sending emails to countries that we do not have a agreement with. Sorry, I can't remember the details, will have to look it up. But Winlink Express will not forward any emails that do not meet the FCC requirements.

JMHO

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

Sorry, I can't remember the details, will have to look it up. But Winlink Express will not forward any emails that do not meet the FCC requirements.

https://winlink.org/terms_conditions and skip down to Third-Party Traffic.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

Dockhead, might have to disagree with your comment about WinLink Express only sending emails to hams. I have sent emails to family and friends via WinLink Express. The only restriction is that imposed by the FCC on sending emails to countries that we do not have a agreement with. Sorry, I can't remember the details, will have to look it up. But Winlink Express will not forward any emails that do not meet the FCC requirements.

JMHO

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

https://winlink.org/terms_conditions and skip down to Third-Party Traffic.

Thank you very much for clearing this up for me!

I was wrong about how it works. Now I know.

It's little comfort to me however because no European countries are on the list! So I'm screwed except in UK waters

My advice to the OP was wrong however, and I duly retract that. Thanks!


I have some follow-up questions, but I will start a new thread in order not to hijack this one.

[StoneCrab]

I like the Icom marine band radios for the boat. They can be opened up for ham use as well, giving you the convenience of the marine channels and the versatility and fun of the ham bands.

If you use a laptop for remote control of the radio and route the speaker output to the laptop, the laptop becomes your remote head, providing frequency and channel memories, software for decoding CW, WeaFAX, and Winlink. I also run an equalizer app to shape the voice audio for easier listening

The Icom radios work very well with the Icom long wire autotuners. There is a marine version and a ham version I have an insulated backstay which is used as the antenna... connected with the GTO15 wire to the tuner.

As others have noted, the Pactor MODEM increases the speed of data transfer but has a high purchase price if new.

I bring the radio home for the winter. This is good for playing radio and experimenting with the setup. Any wire greater than 27 feet long can function as your antenna.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by hjohnson

Given the absurd cost of the Pactor modem, I wouldn't bother with SailMail. The reliability isn't as good as an IridiumGo, and the price is just obscene. It would have been fine had they switched over to any one of the soundcard modes that are available. But they've doggedly stuck with an outdated technology. I say this as an amateur radio operator myself.

The other thing you have to consider is that, in theory at least, with the SSB version of SailMail you're limited to 90 minutes of utilization a week. at the low data rates over HF/MF, that's not a whole lot of data, or email.

SO yeah, if it was me, I'd get the SSB/HF radio, but realistically use it for the hobby side of things, rather than as an actual tool.

Could not say it better myself. I use Sailmail but only because I got the modem way back when price was reasonable and Iridium was someones dream.