HF alternatives to backstay antennas.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Jammer

As part of skills building for cruising I have been experimenting with HF at my house. I've held an amateur radio license for decades and recently upgraded it to general to facilitate this.


I would like to continue my experimentation on my boat. My Hunter 26 doesn't have a backstay -- the fractional rig has a forestay with a roller furler on it, and swept-back shrouds, upper and lower.


What is the most reasonable antenna to use on a boat like this?

You have a big roach on your main, but you also have a stainless steel arch if yours is like the other Hunters I have come across.

If there is clearance, then buy a length of soft 8mm double braid. Slide the outer braid back at one end, fix a light line to the inner, and pull the inner through. Now you have a loose outer, with a light mousing line running up inside it. You can now use that mousing line to pull a length of insulated, tinned, stranded copper wire through (thicker the better).

Seal the top end of the wire, then form the braid into a soft eye splice. That goes to the top of your mast (you will probably need to arrange a light fibreglass batten to hold it back away from your big roach).

At the other end, bring the wire out through the side of the braid, and form the braid into another soft eye splice. That can be fixed to the top of your arch, with the wire going to your ATU.

Just one more thing to consider - if your mast falls over, so do your antennas. Always good to have a back-up you can at least temporarily clamp to your pushpit (or in your case, even better - your arch).

Hope that helps.

David
VK5ZL

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by David B

You have a big roach on your main, but you also have a stainless steel arch if yours is like the other Hunters I have come across.

Just one more thing to consider - if your mast falls over, so do your antennas. Always good to have a back-up you can at least temporarily clamp to your pushpit (or in your case, even better - your arch).

Good advice.


The next two years we plan to be in some areas where there isn't much radio coverage at all but that are low hazard and have frequent boat traffic. We've given a lot of thought to communications strategy. In many ways routine coordination is harder to figure out than emergencies due to the many emergency-only communications solutions that are out there. Have also thought about MURS, GMRS, and CB radio as we are not willing to put marine VHF in a car to use for coordination as doing so would be an egregious violation of FCC rules, and since we have people who don't have amateur radio licenses.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by David B

Interesting Jim.

1 - I did not know you were a licensed amateur
2 - I have considered this but been concerned at high voltage points appearing in places on the mast etc where they can kill things such as wind instrument, radome, VHF antenna - or even nav lights. Sounds like this has not been a problem for you at all?

David
VK5ZL

1. Got my first license at age 11:WN9QQK. Let it lapse when I discovered racecars and girls, then resat the exam in 1986 prior to departing for long term cruising. Have had numerous reciprocal tickets as we wandered around the Pacific. Not so active these days, but continue to operate the Comedy net (7.087 LSB, 2040 Z, daily).

2. No, no such problems have emerged. There is some RF floating around, but nothing that causes problems beyond some neon pilot lights glowing. Even the auto pilot tolerates operation at my usual 50 W output... that has been an issue for many with insulated stay antennae.

And FWIW, many of my m/m friends with backstay antennae note some directionality of radiation. I can not detect this, but rely upon signal reports remaining steady as the boat swings at anchor... not the most sophisticated test method!

73 de Jim

[David B]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

1. Got my first license at age 11:WN9QQK. Let it lapse when I discovered racecars and girls, then resat the exam in 1986 prior to departing for long term cruising. Have had numerous reciprocal tickets as we wandered around the Pacific. Not so active these days, but continue to operate the Comedy net (7.087 LSB, 2040 Z, daily).

2. No, no such problems have emerged. There is some RF floating around, but nothing that causes problems beyond some neon pilot lights glowing. Even the auto pilot tolerates operation at my usual 50 W output... that has been an issue for many with insulated stay antennae.

And FWIW, many of my m/m friends with backstay antennae note some directionality of radiation. I can not detect this, but rely upon signal reports remaining steady as the boat swings at anchor... not the most sophisticated test method!

73 de Jim

Thanks Jim.

Interesting and a lot cheaper and less potentially risky than cutting insulators into the backstay. I have yet to get the HF going on board (IC706 MKIIG), but will look at your idea when we can get back to our boat. Of course all the rigging will be live, so one would not want to have people wandering around deck while Tx'ing. Either that or my 'wire in the rope' suggestion earlier.

For the record, ZL1TMX at 14, then when I came to Aus, slowly upgraded to full call several decades ago. Not active at present, but the equipment is there looking at me for when we get our lives back.

73,

David

[David B]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

1. racecars (and girls)


73 de Jim

Racecars - hmm - another thing in common then .

[Boatguy30]

On my catamaran I have a piece of coated lifeline wire strung 1/2 way up a shroud to the deck about 2 feet in front of chainplate the wire enters cabin side a timer is right there.

Would work in a bigger Hunter but probably not a 26'

Also have a DIY KISS counterpoise. Same as discribed here on CF many years back. Followed exact lengths using salvaged speaker wire. Runs slightly above the waterline in my boat in a pretty straight line after dropping a meter from the tuner. Have a good signal (I'm told)

Will check out that comedy net...

[Dougtiff]

Back in the 80'S, while sailing in S.E.Asia, i used an inverted V, on a 35 ft. Yawl, had a Balum, with wires attached, hung from the spreader when in use, worked well, then on a trip to the states, i purchased a 20 meter yagi, all fibreglass, the boom was 20 ft. long and the 3 element's also 20 ft., had it attached to the top of the mast, with a small line attached to one end of the boom, so could rotate to desired direction, would talk to my Dad pretty much every morning in California, thru a relay, the difference was hugh, the V was good for maybe half an hour, but the yagi lasted as long as wanted, the whole antenna weighed 10 pound's, and i sailed with it, when asked what it was for, i would say, i was watching TV from the USA, and would be believed, HA,HA.

[Dougtiff]

Back in the 80'S, while sailing in S.E.Asia, i used an inverted V, on a 35 ft. Yawl, had a Balum, with wires attached, hung from the spreader when in use, worked well, then on a trip to the states, i purchased a 20 meter yagi, all fibreglass, the boom was 20 ft. long and the 3 element's also 20 ft., had it attached to the top of the mast, with a small line attached to one end of the boom, so could rotate to desired direction, would talk to my Dad pretty much every morning in California, thru a phone patch, the difference was hugh, the V was good for maybe half an hour, but the yagi lasted as long as wanted, the whole antenna weighed 10 pound's, and i sailed with it, when asked what it was for, i would say, i was watching TV from the USA, and would be believed, HA,HA.

[Hiva Oa]

Inverted vee tuned to the band your prefer. For me that is 14 Mhz or 16' long legs. Good to have end points 16 to 24' above sea for best transmission characteristics.

[Emmalina]

I have a G8### ham licence somewhere from the 70's but more to the point last rigging change I passed on the idolaters as they came in at about 600usd and sat technology is cheaper if you don't intend to do too many passages. Still keep the Icom connected and have a temp wire antenna hanging off the tuner but sure isn't the main comms system. Think about 7m/21feet is about the middle of the spectrum for VHF

[MicHughV]

I had no insulators on my end fed long wire arrangement. Just a length of 1/8" s/s cable, I'm guessing around 25' long, folded over a s/s thimble on each end, the short end being held in place with a wire clip. From the thimble to the top of the mast was some braided line, looping around the thimble to a tang on the back of the masthead several times. I had about 12" separation between wire and mast tang. Same thing on the bottom end, which was clipped to a pvc "pole" on the transom. The feeder line coming from the tuner, ran thru' the pvc "pole" and was clipped to the bottom end of the wire with a bronze wire clip, which I taped over with some electrical tape. At the clip, I turned the feeder line backwards, and attached it " upside down" as I did not want rain or salt water wicking down the feeder line.
It all worked like a charm, and I never had any problems connecting with anyone, but will add, the direction the stern of my boat was pointed at, made a difference. Best result were always when the stern was aimed at the sending station.
I started cruising in my 20's and never had more than $10 to my name, so had to be innovative and inventive wherever I could. Back in those days, there was no cell or sat phone...a ham radio was it ! Ha, so was morse code....and High Seas Radio Operators....sadly, all gone now....

[waterman46]

That vertical mobile antenna I had/still have was a Hustler, not Hygain.

http://www.new-tronics.com/main/html/mobile__hf.html
They still sell it, it works well and is very popular for mobile use. A big advantage is that no antenna tuner is required. It presents a 50 ohm load to the coax from your rig. But you'll want an SWR meter, as you would with any antenna, to optimize the whip length. I would mount it on the transom and trail a short length of copper wire in the water for an optimal ground, also connect the ground to any SS railings and lifelines that are nearby.

I just mention this since cost, installation and room for an automatic antenna tuner may present a problem in some boats. Using some or all of the rig with antenna tuner may work better especially on lower end of HF band.

Originally Posted by waterman46

I used a Hygain vertical system designed for automotive use. The antennas are short, no more than 8'. There is a separate loading coil for each band, but it is simple to change. This was on a Cal 29. Put it on the stern with a ground to the engine. Worked fine, made many contacts. The transmitter was a Swan 350 with lots of power. Blew out the tiller pilot. I should have wound the power wires to the autopilot through toroids.
When conditions were good in the 90's, I talked to Japan from my car with the same antenna. I still have it and plan to use it at my house soon.



Doug
KG6U

[Moontide]

I just haul the antenna wire up on a halyard and it works fine. One of these days I will get around to rigging a permanent "rope" antenna but until then all is good.

[Brian.D]

Wire rope is the same as lifeline. Just use it instead of tearing apart a rope and inserting a wire in it. Wire rope is already coated and can be used as an insulator.

Bill Trayfor, WA6CCA (SK) built vertical dipoles for his boat using lifeline wire rope. Inexpensive, sturdy, will withstand high winds and an adverse environment.

Here is a link to Bill's antenna design and materials he used. It can also be used for an alternative backstay.

[smallFry]

Jammer, does your Hunter have a steel compression post stepped to the keel? If so, your mast and rig are probably electrically continuous with your keel through the tabernacle. I’m gonna give you the dreaded *I think* response and hope someone corrects me.

It doesn’t make sense to me for you to use a rig as an antenna if it is continuous with your counterpoise (the keel).

I think your mast crutch is far enough aft to support a rigid or wire antenna. If wire is your preference, you could check for leech clearance by attaching one end of a light line to the crutch, and letting the other end pass through the main halyard shackle as you raise the main.