Combined VHF Radio/AIS Transceiver - Not Available?

[derfy]

I have to replace all my electronics due to a lightning hit.

I just learned, and cannot believe, than you cannot buy a combined VHF Radio/AIS Transceiver in one unit. I further learn that this is due to bureaucratic blocking by the FCC, or whomever, rather than some technical reason.

I know for a fact it is not a technical reason.

How dumb is that?

[ForGrinsToo]

Did not know the FCC was a problem.
Either Icom or Standard-Horizon briefly offered one, but then withdrew it.
Vesper Marine had what seemed to be a good solution, even multiplexes off the regular VHF antenna, but they’ve been acquired by Garmin. Maybe Garmin will decide there’s enough market to push for approval.

Can you provide specifics regarding how you learned of the bureaucratic problem, and who might be contacted?

[Lake-Effect]

You didn't look very hard.

Simrad RS40-B VHF AIS Receive & Transmit



You're welcome. And FCC is not the world's communications gatekeeper.

[HeywoodJ]

For the moment Vesper does still offer the Cortex.

“...it’s not a VHF radio…but it is. It’s not an AIS…but it is. It’s not a MOB system…but it is, and it’s a whole lot more”

And the AIS is Class B SOTDMA, commonly referred to as B+.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by derfy

I have to replace all my electronics due to a lightning hit.

I just learned, and cannot believe, than you cannot buy a combined VHF Radio/AIS Transceiver in one unit. I further learn that this is due to bureaucratic blocking by the FCC, or whomever, rather than some technical reason.

I know for a fact it is not a technical reason.

How dumb is that?

I would not buy a combined unit anyway too many eggs in one basket. ( I’m replacing all mine as was hit by lightening )

The issue is not the FCC the issue is the technical requirements of AIS means dual transceivers are needed as well as separate GPS etc. this results in a vhf/ais unit that’s crazy money and vhf manufacturers don’t see the right price point.

[derfy]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

You didn't look very hard.

Simrad RS40-B VHF AIS Receive & Transmit



You're welcome. And FCC is not the world's communications gatekeeper.

Thanks very much, I will check it out. I see they price it in Canadian Dollars. Is is available in the US?

[derfy]

Originally Posted by ForGrinsToo

Did not know the FCC was a problem.
Either Icom or Standard-Horizon briefly offered one, but then withdrew it.
Vesper Marine had what seemed to be a good solution, even multiplexes off the regular VHF antenna, but they’ve been acquired by Garmin. Maybe Garmin will decide there’s enough market to push for approval.

Can you provide specifics regarding how you learned of the bureaucratic problem, and who might be contacted?

A guy who is surveying my boat for the insurance claim told me the issue was FCC, but that he heard that very recently there might be some new products.

[derfy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I would not buy a combined unit anyway too many eggs in one basket. ( I’m replacing all mine as was hit by lightening )

The issue is not the FCC the issue is the technical requirements of AIS means dual transceivers are needed as well as separate GPS etc. this results in a vhf/ais unit that’s crazy money and vhf manufacturers don’t see the right price point.

Why would it be hard to put both functions in front of the same RF power amp? Transmit side could be combined (or switched using the mic key) as small signals before amplification and 50 ohm transmission. Receivers could listen to two channels at once - AIS and VHF, and be protected when either AIS or Radio is transmitting. If it is a technical issue, it is not obvious to me. Should be much cheaper than separate boxes passing 50 ohm signals in and out. Instead it looks way more expensive.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by derfy

Why would it be hard to put both functions in front of the same RF power amp? Transmit side could be combined (or switched using the mic key) as small signals before amplification and 50 ohm transmission. Receivers could listen to two channels at once - AIS and VHF, and be protected when either AIS or Radio is transmitting. If it is a technical issue, it is not obvious to me. Should be much cheaper than separate boxes passing 50 ohm signals in and out. Instead it looks way more expensive.

The ITU requirements mandate a separate transceiver in practice as well as dedicated ais gps unit.

If you look at the simrad combined unit it’s more expensive then a better SOTDMA 5w ais plus a decent DSC VHF ) the simrad one is the lower power CSMACD AIS

cant see the point

Note that radio does not have an integrated antenna splitter so two antennas must be installed

[derfy]

Originally Posted by derfy

Thanks very much, I will check it out. I see they price it in Canadian Dollars. Is is available in the US?

I see it is offered by MauriPro and Defender also in the US. Defender says it is the first product that has all this functionality.

[shimari]

I just installed a Vesper Cortex. Yes it is expensive, but not really if you have to buy separate kit to do all it does (AIS, hailer, remote monitoring etc). Yes - all of my eggs are in one basket, but I carry a backup VHF handheld, cell phone, and iridium go. if I lose AIS it isn't the end of the world. You can use your phone as an additional handset via an app, and the handset capability is beyond anything on the market. You have worldwide monitoring (for ~$150/yr). It's an amazing piece of kit.

The only issues I've had have been with the remote monitoring. There was something stuffed up in the cloud such that I wouldn't get data when off the boat. Garmin escalated the issue to the Vesper team and things were sorted out in about 2 weeks.

[derfy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The ITU requirements mandate a separate transceiver in practice as well as dedicated ais gps unit.

If you look at the simrad combined unit it’s more expensive then a better SOTDMA 5w ais plus a decent DSC VHF ) the simrad one is the lower power CSMACD AIS

cant see the point

Note that radio does not have an integrated antenna splitter so two antennas must be installed

Yes, with separate antenna ports, I agree, they missed the point. The point would have been one box mounted at the helm, with just 12v and a single coax to the masthead antenna. Simple and complete. Too bad this is not available.

[derfy]

Originally Posted by shimari

I just installed a Vesper Cortex. Yes it is expensive, but not really if you have to buy separate kit to do all it does (AIS, hailer, remote monitoring etc). Yes - all of my eggs are in one basket, but I carry a backup VHF handheld, cell phone, and iridium go. if I lose AIS it isn't the end of the world. You can use your phone as an additional handset via an app, and the handset capability is beyond anything on the market. You have worldwide monitoring (for ~$150/yr). It's an amazing piece of kit.

The only issues I've had have been with the remote monitoring. There was something stuffed up in the cloud such that I wouldn't get data when off the boat. Garmin escalated the issue to the Vesper team and things were sorted out in about 2 weeks.

This unit looks really interesting. Thanks, I will read up on it.

[Jenta]

I would be surprised if any such "rule" existed that said it could not be combined. Primarily because these products exist. That being said - I really have no idea but I CAN say that I've been using a Vesper Cortex since October 2020 and while there were some growing pains at first, they've consistently added features and fixed issues and I'm very pleased with our purchase.

The only lingering issue so far is that on the remote handset the charging cradle is not so great and sometimes I have to wedge the handset in the cradle without fully snapping it in place to get it to charge.
Hopefully they come up with a new design at some point but I can work around it if they don't.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jenta

I would be surprised if any such "rule" existed that said it could not be combined. Primarily because these products exist. That being said - I really have no idea but I CAN say that I've been using a Vesper Cortex since October 2020 and while there were some growing pains at first, they've consistently added features and fixed issues and I'm very pleased with our purchase.

The only lingering issue so far is that on the remote handset the charging cradle is not so great and sometimes I have to wedge the handset in the cradle without fully snapping it in place to get it to charge.
Hopefully they come up with a new design at some point but I can work around it if they don't.

No rule exists to prevent both feature sets bring available in one “ box “ but other then the screen and input buttons , little can be shared internally. This will therefore always be a very niche product and will be expensive as a result.

For cheaper money , I can buy a far superior SOTDMA 5W AIS ( with integrated splitter ) and a very good VHF ( standard horizon GX1850 ) easier to wire up , better etc.