Combined VHF Radio/AIS Transceiver - Not Available?

[shimari]

Originally Posted by Jenta

....

The only lingering issue so far is that on the remote handset the charging cradle is not so great and sometimes I have to wedge the handset in the cradle without fully snapping it in place to get it to charge.
Hopefully they come up with a new design at some point but I can work around it if they don't.

I agree the cradle is a PITA. I've the H1 at the helm so I don't usually take the wireless handset out much.

[derfy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No rule exists to prevent both feature sets bring available in one “ box “ but other then the screen and input buttons , little can be shared internally. This will therefore always be a very niche product and will be expensive as a result.

For cheaper money , I can buy a far superior SOTDMA 5W AIS ( with integrated splitter ) and a very good VHF ( standard horizon GX1850 ) easier to wire up , better etc.

Your assertions may be accurate, but the logic offered is not evident to me. Sorry. Maybe you can explain.

Q: Why wouldn't there be many, many boat operators (sail and power) wanting both VHF/DSC and AIS in one simple box, with just one antenna port to connect, one 12v power connection, one mounting point (like inside the helm console), and an internal gps. Your done! No different than just mounting a radio.

What is shared? The GPS (both VHF DSC and AIS), the RF power amp, 50 ohm connectors (for transmission of AIS 5w and VHF 25 w), maybe RF and IF receiver, the microcontroller for setup, function automation, and UI, etc. This is what a Cortex seems to be.

It's just not cheaper. It's more money than the piece parts.
I notice, it is those cleaver little handsets that make the system so expensive.

Also, just looking at them, I am not crazy about the Cortex handsets - I am not impressed with the little touch screens and small, lightweight remote gadgets that would be getting lost, flying off their cradle, getting crushed underfoot, getting wet, grimy, needy for recharging, getting stolen, etc. And besides, I am half deaf and they probably aren't loud enough.

A good ole fashioned hanging PTT mic with built in speaker I can hold to my ear in gale is what I would prefer. Just sayin'

I agree with you, cost-wise, a two-box solution seems considerably cheaper and avoids the single point of failure - better to have a radio that still works, even if the AIS dies.

[Dr. D]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

For cheaper money , I can buy a far superior SOTDMA 5W AIS ( with integrated splitter ) and a very good VHF ( standard horizon GX1850 ) easier to wire up , better etc.

I was looking to replace my VHF with AIS receiver with a VHF with AIS transceiver. The shop I talked with pointed out the standalone AIS transceivers which are easy to integrate. I went with their recommendation. Everything works fine. I must leave the VHF in "AIS ON" mode for it to function properly. No, there is no "ringing" effect by the VHF picking up the AIS transmissions.

[goboatingnow]

I’m not sure what you mean by “ ringing “ effects

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by derfy

Your assertions may be accurate, but the logic offered is not evident to me. Sorry. Maybe you can explain.

Q: Why wouldn't there be many, many boat operators (sail and power) wanting both VHF/DSC and AIS in one simple box, with just one antenna port to connect, one 12v power connection, one mounting point (like inside the helm console), and an internal gps. Your done! No different than just mounting a radio.

What is shared? The GPS (both VHF DSC and AIS), the RF power amp, 50 ohm connectors (for transmission of AIS 5w and VHF 25 w), maybe RF and IF receiver, the microcontroller for setup, function automation, and UI, etc. This is what a Cortex seems to be.

It's just not cheaper. It's more money than the piece parts.
I notice, it is those cleaver little handsets that make the system so expensive.

Also, just looking at them, I am not crazy about the Cortex handsets - I am not impressed with the little touch screens and small, lightweight remote gadgets that would be getting lost, flying off their cradle, getting crushed underfoot, getting wet, grimy, needy for recharging, getting stolen, etc. And besides, I am half deaf and they probably aren't loud enough.

A good ole fashioned hanging PTT mic with built in speaker I can hold to my ear in gale is what I would prefer. Just sayin'

I agree with you, cost-wise, a two-box solution seems considerably cheaper and avoids the single point of failure - better to have a radio that still works, even if the AIS dies.

The itu specs for AIS do not facilitate shared components , in essence the ais units would have to be separate inside the radio as transmit AIS cannot share a transmitting electronics , receiver or a shared GPs

Hence you just in essence end up with two items in one box. This is not cost effective and also means your upgrade path is also constrained.

As an EE , I can easily see why it’s not a common product offering and is unlikely ever to be.

I don’t like the cortex product line at all. I’m at this years trade event METS , and will keep an eye out for ais developments.

[Dr. D]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’m not sure what you mean by “ ringing “ effects

In another thread last year some time, the topic of a VHF radio with AIS receive and an AIS transceiver on the same boat would result in the VHF AIS receiver picking up the transmission of the AIS transceiver. The result would be supposedly chaotic. As the unit I had installed (Sci-Tex MDA-5H) has a built in splitter, the VHF AIS receiver can’t see the AIS transceiver transmissions, so no problem. Further, the AIS transceiver transmissions are 26 ms long, so they don’t interfere with the VHF function.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dr. D

In another thread last year some time, the topic of a VHF radio with AIS receive and an AIS transceiver on the same boat would result in the VHF AIS receiver picking up the transmission of the AIS transceiver. The result would be supposedly chaotic. As the unit I had installed (Sci-Tex MDA-5H) has a built in splitter, the VHF AIS receiver can’t see the AIS transceiver transmissions, so no problem. Further, the AIS transceiver transmissions are 26 ms long, so they don’t interfere with the VHF function.

I would fully expect an AIS receive only to pick up the transmission from a AIS transceiver. I’d be concerned if the receive unit didn’t hear the transmit unit. I don’t see how the result is chaotic , unless both receive functionality was used. Leaving aside the fact that having both units makes no sense

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by derfy

Thanks very much, I will check it out. I see they price it in Canadian Dollars. Is is available in the US?

https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/p...4aAuKVEALw_wcB

[ItDepends]

WTF????

I know when I was last shopping for VHF radios I saw units like this, and could not figure out what the OP is talking about. Sure enough...

I just went to Defender, and see for sale there FOUR different VHF radios with integrated AIS transceivers.


B&G V60-B
Simrad RS100-BB
Simrad RS40-B
Vesper Cortex V!

What am I missing... this wasn't hard... or is it more fun to whine about problems that do not exist???

Honestly, I'd prefer separate units, where I can better match the features to what I need, but this making up of stories about how they are not available because of some stupid government rule is just typical of the kind of misinformation that is becoming REALLY common. Especially what it is so trivial to prove wrong with 30 seconds of work...

They might not be exactly what you want, but they certainly exist...

As for this supposed "Kaos" when there is a transmitter and receiver on the same boat... You just program the receiver with "Own Boat" MMSI number, and PRESTO! It knows which signal is YOU! I think y'all have been watching too many Get Smart reruns.

[Dr. D]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I would fully expect an AIS receive only to pick up the transmission from a AIS transceiver. I’d be concerned if the receive unit didn’t hear the transmit unit. I don’t see how the result is chaotic , unless both receive functionality was used. Leaving aside the fact that having both units makes no sense

You are missing a key point: The splitter in the AIS transceiver. When it transmits it turns off the connection of the VHF and the antenna. Hence, the VHF AIS never receives the AIS transceiver transmission.

[CarlF]

I have the Cortex and have been very happy with it - but I use it as a 2nd VHF (the Cortex allows you to use its VHF, a 2nd VHF, and AIS transceiver all on the same antenna).

It's great to have the primary radio on 16 and the Cortex on 13 when commercial traffic is nearby. The Cortex handset click wheel is the best way I've ever seen to change channels. I don't like to use multiple channels on the same radio. I always get mixed up as to where I'm transmitting.

The handset holder is not a great design but I've gotten used to it. I found that putting a thin layer of NO-OX-ID electrical grease on the contacts solved the charging problem in the cradle.

It still needs a few more software updates to but I'd buy it again in a second. It's best strength is the AIS display including the special screen to help you figure out how much (and which way) to turn to open up the CPA to a certain distance. No other AIS comes close to Cortex/Vesper in smart filtering of AIS targets. Far, far better than the Simrad.

The anchor alarm is also wonderful. And will both alarm at the handset on the boat or your cell phone at dinner ashore (as well as doors or bilge pumps). Besides showing the location of the boat it shows how it's moved at anchor, wind speed, direction, and water depth.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

WTF????

I know when I was last shopping for VHF radios I saw units like this, and could not figure out what the OP is talking about. Sure enough...

I just went to Defender, and see for sale there FOUR different VHF radios with integrated AIS transceivers.


B&G V60-B
Simrad RS100-BB
Simrad RS40-B
Vesper Cortex V!

What am I missing... this wasn't hard... or is it more fun to whine about problems that do not exist???

Honestly, I'd prefer separate units, where I can better match the features to what I need, but this making up of stories about how they are not available because of some stupid government rule is just typical of the kind of misinformation that is becoming REALLY common. Especially what it is so trivial to prove wrong with 30 seconds of work...

They might not be exactly what you want, but they certainly exist...

As for this supposed "Kaos" when there is a transmitter and receiver on the same boat... You just program the receiver with "Own Boat" MMSI number, and PRESTO! It knows which signal is YOU! I think y'all have been watching too many Get Smart reruns.

Why would a receiver have an ability to exclude a MMSI. No one in their right mind has a separate AIS transmitter and receiver , even if such a thing existed

[derfy]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

WTF????

I know when I was last shopping for VHF radios I saw units like this, and could not figure out what the OP is talking about. Sure enough...

I just went to Defender, and see for sale there FOUR different VHF radios with integrated AIS transceivers.


B&G V60-B
Simrad RS100-BB
Simrad RS40-B
Vesper Cortex V!

What am I missing... this wasn't hard... or is it more fun to whine about problems that do not exist???

Honestly, I'd prefer separate units, where I can better match the features to what I need, but this making up of stories about how they are not available because of some stupid government rule is just typical of the kind of misinformation that is becoming REALLY common. Especially what it is so trivial to prove wrong with 30 seconds of work...

They might not be exactly what you want, but they certainly exist...

As for this supposed "Kaos" when there is a transmitter and receiver on the same boat... You just program the receiver with "Own Boat" MMSI number, and PRESTO! It knows which signal is YOU! I think y'all have been watching too many Get Smart reruns.

Well, I'm the OP. As John Wayne said "Life is harder when you are stupid".

Please tell what I am missing ...

Q: B&G V60-B - does it have a built-in splitter? Not likely. They show an external splitter as a Related Accessories, and do not mention the subject in the Product Details.

I checked https://www.bandg.com/bg/type/vhf-ai...oadsandmanuals. No user or installation manual found, just the handset manual. Dubbya tee eff??? No manuals - really? Just a manual on the Handset.

Simrad plainly states their units require separate antennas or external splitter.

Silly me, I am looking for a self-contained, one-box, one-antenna solution.

I believe the Cortex is the only one like that. I just wish is looked like, installed, and worked like, a plain ole radio.

[derfy]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I have the Cortex and have been very happy with it - but I use it as a 2nd VHF (the Cortex allows you to use its VHF, a 2nd VHF, and AIS transceiver all on the same antenna).

It's great to have the primary radio on 16 and the Cortex on 13 when commercial traffic is nearby. The Cortex handset click wheel is the best way I've ever seen to change channels. I don't like to use multiple channels on the same radio. I always get mixed up as to where I'm transmitting.

The handset holder is not a great design but I've gotten used to it. I found that putting a thin layer of NO-OX-ID electrical grease on the contacts solved the charging problem in the cradle.

It still needs a few more software updates to but I'd buy it again in a second. It's best strength is the AIS display including the special screen to help you figure out how much (and which way) to turn to open up the CPA to a certain distance. No other AIS comes close to Cortex/Vesper in smart filtering of AIS targets. Far, far better than the Simrad.

The anchor alarm is also wonderful. And will both alarm at the handset on the boat or your cell phone at dinner ashore (as well as doors or bilge pumps). Besides showing the location of the boat it shows how it's moved at anchor, wind speed, direction, and water depth.

Very informative and much appreciated.

I view AIS targets with my MFD, so I have not had a need to have a separate AIS screen on my radio. I am not sure that is a compelling feature for me.

The alarm features sound quite useful, especially when anchored in a new place.

Maybe you know, can the Cortex message me an Alert to a DSC-capable VHF handset? This would avoid having getting two SIM cards each time I visit an island nation. (To avoid costly roaming charges, I had to get 5 different cellular subscriptions this year, sailing from Grenada to the Bahamas, quite expensive and time consuming). Also would avoid having a 4G antenna to the Cortex. This would be a huge feature for me.

[jvolpehoo]

I just bought one, the standard Horizon, from amazon. It is receive only, no transmit of position and I was assured that it would network with my NMEA 2000 Chartplotter. havent' installed or tested yet. will come back here when.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089YV4XYQ...roduct_details