Class B AIS waste of money

[ardoin]

My AIS is the best piece of safety equipment on my boat!!! I still have to use the radar to find the guys that don't have AIS. But all the same if you are in shipping passages, you really should have an AIS!
If you don't have one now, get one and you will learn why they are great. You see the deep draft ships and they see you. With one for two degree turn they can pass safely around out. And if you have to call the on the radio, you have the ship's name and they will respond and you can work out the details on passing from there.
I had a tanker at sea in the Atlantic radio me to see if I needed help because my AIS reported that I had a power failure. I've never had a deep draft ship hail me before. Yes I had a power failure, my main bank shutdown cause it was being overcharged by a faulty regulator. We switched the the secondary system and got everything up and running again, but the AIS reported the problem and the ship responded to see if we needed help. That is impressive.
If you don't have one, get one and sail out in the ocean. You will love it!!!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by ardoin

My AIS is the best piece of safety equipment on my boat!!! I still have to use the radar to find the guys that don't have AIS. But all the same if you are in shipping passages, you really should have an AIS!
If you don't have one now, get one and you will learn why they are great. You see the deep draft ships and they see you. With one for two degree turn they can pass safely around out. And if you have to call the on the radio, you have the ship's name and they will respond and you can work out the details on passing from there.
I had a tanker at sea in the Atlantic radio me to see if I needed help because my AIS reported that I had a power failure. I've never had a deep draft ship hail me before. Yes I had a power failure, my main bank shutdown cause it was being overcharged by a faulty regulator. We switched the the secondary system and got everything up and running again, but the AIS reported the problem and the ship responded to see if we needed help. That is impressive.
If you don't have one, get one and sail out in the ocean. You will love it!!!

What sort of AIS is it that makes such a report. I don't think that my Vesper will report a power outage... in fact, if the power is out, I suspect it will be struck dumb!

But, having a ship volunteer help is impressive. The sea tends to improve human relations!

Jim

[Cap Erict3]

Originally Posted by daletournier

.............

The most important one for me is there has been one occasion in quite heavy weather when its been easier for the ship to alter course than me on a small getting hammered sailing vessel due to the weather, the captain was more than happy to make life easier for me and alter course, this only can happen do you to him understanding my course exactly.

My new boat only has a recieve type AIS, I just purchased a vesper 8000 class B which I haven't installed yet, experience upto date tells me this is not a waste of money.




Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Similar experience.

Oncoming ship calls my vessel as I am approaching jetties. Around midnight. Channel approximately 200 yds wide. We agree on port to port. 5 minutes till we pass according to AIS.

Engine idling, full sail, solo

Winds come up to 30 knots suddenly and find myself dumping sail and blown to port side of channel. I no sooner get things somewhat under control than I see the 800' cargo vessel has changed course to the starboard side of channel for a 2 whistle pass.

I am a big fan of Class B AIS, especially in a crowded harbor.

[ardoin]

I think it is more a matter of the ship doing a better job of examining the protocol. My guess is that they saw my AIS stop broadcasting and then a few minutes later start up again. I think if the protocol is examined you could figure that the system reinitiated.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

What sort of AIS is it that makes such a report. I don't think that my Vesper will report a power outage... in fact, if the power is out, I suspect it will be struck dumb!

But, having a ship volunteer help is impressive. The sea tends to improve human relations!

Jim

[Caribdis]

At the Lauderdale boat show I spoke with the Standard Horizon rep--he said the GX6500 VHF/Class B transceiver will be out in March:
Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: Standard Horizon GX6500: a loaded VHF radio also integrated with Class B AIS

Informative thread to read, great to hear from the commercial movers. Could do with less sniping though...

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by shawndear

There is no "Law of Tonnage" and I often remind large container ships on channel 16, so many other people can also hear, that I am a sailing vessel under sail so they must change their coarse. There is no excuse for a large vessel unless in confined waterways to expect a sailing vessel to get out of their way. They have radar, AIS and someone on watch. 10 nm away with a 1deg change will ensure a miss. They move - that's the rules. And this has been proven in court many times, with manslaughter charges as a result against the Captain. Obviously I wont play the ultimate "chicken" game, but do press the point as they do NOT have a higher status just because they are bigger.

If you've ever been a watchstander on a big ship at sea, you'll know they are automated robots. Making course changes or even speed changes is a big deal. I don't expect those robots to behave with human empathy, regardless of what the COLREGs say. Having an AIS receiver is a necessity in my mind, and why not spend a few more bucks to get a class B transponder?

I imagine this discussion must be a rehash of older debates: do you need a radio? Do you need GPS? Yes, I have a sextant on board (along with a current almanac and a good clock) in case the electrons stop flowing while I'm offshore, but I would never propose anyone go to sea without a radio and GPS. Part of good seamanship is making use of every tool available to maintain situational awareness. Why deprive yourself of a useful tool - even if it is imperfect?

Offshore of San Francisco, outbound vessels follow the established separation scheme until leaving the immediate area. Then they turn to their long range heading. I have more than once had a large cargo vessel paralleling my course at night at less than 2 NM. If they'd turned toward me at 20 knots, I'd get very little warning. It's very comforting to be able to call them by name (impossible without AIS) and ask: "Motor Vessel Behemoth, if you are planning a turn to the south, please advise, and I will give way." The net result: I don't have to make a presumptive turn to maintain separation, they know I see them and won't turn into their course... and they know I'm not just another WAFI. I have always been thanked for the courtesy, and they have always seen my AIS transponder.

What really scares me - what I believe is the height of WAFIness - are the sailors who use their smartphones to see AIS traffic from sources like marinetraffic.com - even though marinetraffic emphatically warns people not to use them for traffic avoidance. It's false security. They are completely dependent on their wireless carrier, the Internet, and the volunteer AIS receiving stations. My own vessel is one of those volunteer receiving stations, and whenever I throw off the dock lines and disconnect from the Internet, my own vessel and all those around me vanish from marinetraffic. There's no warning that there is no service over a particular sea area. All they see is deceptively open blue ocean on their screens.

[CarlF]

I find it amusing that many who argue against AIS would not think of going to sea without a radar that costs three times as much as an AIS transponder - despite radar being a 70 year old technology that is so poor at locating fiberglass boats that many buy radar reflectors to try to improve the odds of not being mistaken for a bird or a wave.

I've just sailed from the Bahamas to New England. Over 95% of the vessels I saw were transmitting AIS. This is a huge increase from previous years. Offshore, I keep the radar on for COLREGS but no other reason as the returns I care about all are more accurately displayed on the AIS display. I occasionally radioed nearby commercial ships and they all reported that they had my AIS B signal on their AIS display (one saw me at over 10 miles).

In these waters, at least, the AIS question seems to be settled. You needlessly risk your safety and the safety of others by refusing to be visible on AIS. It's like saying you want to be invisible to radar.

.

[SV Enough]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Yes you are right.



Total waste of money.



Especially when ignorant illegal ships officers turn the damn thing off.

Nothing illegal about it. Your not required to have it and we are required to look at it. Exceptions are the few jurisdictions requiring it and even then we are required to look at it. Admit it it’s all about look at me see me ego but having obtained and MMSI for your ego to be looked at you HAVEN’T A CLUE HOW TO USE IT IN THE ONE PLACE IT REALLY COULD SAVE YOUR EGO, YOU DSC RADIO!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

Nothing illegal about it. Your not required to have it and we are required to look at it. Exceptions are the few jurisdictions requiring it and even then we are required to look at it. Admit it it’s all about look at me see me ego but having obtained and MMSI for your ego to be looked at you HAVEN’T A CLUE HOW TO USE IT IN THE ONE PLACE IT REALLY COULD SAVE YOUR EGO, YOU DSC RADIO!

Well, the fact is that most ships are indeed required to have AIS, and that turning their transmitters off is not legal. Small craft as yet are not so required except in a few countries. It is pretty likely that this will change over the years, whether you like it or not. Meanwhile more and more pleasure boats are fitting and using AIS.

Your final statements are kinda confusing, even when you shout them out. However, some of us who are full time cruising in oceanic waters do have a clue about using AIS, and find it a major help in heavy traffic and out at sea where one's attention may wander at times. Your comments about our collective egos and the saving thereof are again confusing. I think you are saying that use of DSC calling could save said egos, and that we don't know how to do that. I do know how, but have found that a simple VHF call on 16, when addressed to a specific ship's name has a very good chance of being acknowledged, and not so much with DSC calls. Don't know why, and don't care, for the voice call is easier and gets the desired response.

Your post has an angry tone about it, and I'm not sure why. Many of us are quite happy about AIS and find it useful. If you don't, then (until it becomes mandatory, if ever) don't use it.

Jim

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

Nothing illegal about it. Your not required to have it and we are required to look at it. Exceptions are the few jurisdictions requiring it and even then we are required to look at it. Admit it it’s all about look at me see me ego but having obtained and MMSI for your ego to be looked at you HAVEN’T A CLUE HOW TO USE IT IN THE ONE PLACE IT REALLY COULD SAVE YOUR EGO, YOU DSC RADIO!

What are you even trying to say? If you are saying having a Ais is some sort of ego gratification thing, then wow! It's hard to even comprehend how you even come to that conclusion, in regards to ego, maybe best to sit back and see if yours is engaged here.

Ais is just a great bit of kit, I've used it extensively.

[Lantau]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, the fact is that most ships are indeed required to have AIS, and that turning their transmitters off is not legal. Small craft as yet are not so required except in a few countries. It is pretty likely that this will change over the years, whether you like it or not. Meanwhile more and more pleasure boats are fitting and using AIS.

Your final statements are kinda confusing, even when you shout them out. However, some of us who are full time cruising in oceanic waters do have a clue about using AIS, and find it a major help in heavy traffic and out at sea where one's attention may wander at times. Your comments about our collective egos and the saving thereof are again confusing. I think you are saying that use of DSC calling could save said egos, and that we don't know how to do that. I do know how, but have found that a simple VHF call on 16, when addressed to a specific ship's name has a very good chance of being acknowledged, and not so much with DSC calls. Don't know why, and don't care, for the voice call is easier and gets the desired response.

Your post has an angry tone about it, and I'm not sure why. Many of us are quite happy about AIS and find it useful. If you don't, then (until it becomes mandatory, if ever) don't use it.

Jim

I agree Jim. And it works the other way: if there's lots of chatter on the radio, I might not notice a radio call that is meant for me but doesn't include my boat's name -- something like "hey, sailboat, you are heading straight for a floating shipping container." But if the call is directed at me, I'll surely notice it (well, after one or two calls...). One can think of many other potential safety benefits, quite apart from those for which AIS was intended. For example, if you go missing, there may be an option to find your last location (on several websites). Oh, and increasingly navigational aids are becoming virtual -- there's nothing there, just a point generated by electrons on the AIS (but, admittedly, you don't need an AIS transmit function to see these). One can expect these to become very common for a simple reason: they are cheap, almost free, to "install" and maintain.

And try going into places like Singapore without AIS transmitting. Bring big big money to pay the fines. That said, around places like that there are so many AIS contacts that the display becomes unusable. Too bad the US Navy seems to have chosen to turn off their AIS not far from Singapore. It may have contributed to the deaths of several sailors.

I do dislike one thing about AIS-B: it adds to that general feeling that nothing on this earth is still private. I feel like I'm being watched, as I probably am. But that's the point.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by SV Enough

Nothing illegal about it. Your not required to have it and we are required to look at it. Exceptions are the few jurisdictions requiring it and even then we are required to look at it. Admit it it’s all about look at me see me ego but having obtained and MMSI for your ego to be looked at you HAVEN’T A CLUE HOW TO USE IT IN THE ONE PLACE IT REALLY COULD SAVE YOUR EGO, YOU DSC RADIO!

You sir, are an embarrassment to the professional merchant mariners who know the value of AIS and know the appropriate measures to filter targets and when to apply them.

[CarlF]

I also don't understand the angry tone.

I really don't care if someone uses their AIS as long as they transmit so I can use my AIS. In US waters, I hardly ever see a commercial vessel over 65' not transmitting AIS -- probably because it's illegal.

Most of the pleasure boats over 50ft are transmitting AIS too. A huge increase over just a year ago.

So I think arguing about AIS is pointless. It's here to stay - which is a good thing for safety at sea.

[newhaul]

Ok what exactly do I need to install AIS transceiver on my defender I am looking for specifics as far as what I will need . ( cheapest way to do it ) fixed income ) I'm an engineer not an ET.

[IslandHopper]

Lol.......i see someone has left the door to the engine room open again, guess the deck plates are not getting scrubbed....