Travel no passport

[Skipperart]

Originally Posted by davidwiley75

Is it possible to sail from Florida to California without a passport?
Thanks

You could do the great loop!
Come up New York and go up the Hudson river and go around the Mississippi river
You can read about that.
Is also fun to do it.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Skipperart

You could do the great loop!
Come up New York and go up the Hudson river and go around the Mississippi river
You can read about that.
Is also fun to do it.

Hey, you learn something every day, I know my US geography is not that good but I never knew that the Mississippi river went to California.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by davidwiley75

So I imagine some of you would like to know why I don't have a passport, and it really has nothing to do with cruising but I am going to explain.
I am a retired combat veteran, that has been through three divorces and have four wonderful son's. A few years back I was a week late on a child support payment, after which the government automatically garnished half of my pay to include retirement. Now I don't know how well off many of you are but attempting to hire attorneys and paying court fees on half pay is difficult let alone try and house and feed yourself.
So, after being behind $2500 the government decides to revoke your prevlidge of visiting foreign countries. I am not trying to flee the country, I am simply trying to get to see my son's.
In addition I have used my real name on here so I don't feel as though I have been shady in anyway. Yes I could ship the vessel by truck and I may.
Thank you for all your feedback

I hear you bro. Who says the US doesn't have debtor's prisons? There are a lot of people, mostly men, who couldn't pay child support and ended up in jail - who might disagree with that assertion.

Child support and visitation rights are treated as "separate issues." So many men are paying while being deprived of any role of fatherhood.

[Foxglove2]

Oh for goodness sake, how difficult is that to get a passport!

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Foxglove2

Oh for goodness sake, how difficult is that to get a passport!

Foxglove, I see you're in New Zealand, so you are probably unaware of our draconian family law here in the US. A man is often assessed child support obligations that are beyond his means to pay. If he gets behind, the State Department will cancel his passport - even if he needs to travel internationally to earn money to make those payments. This happens to merchant mariners. Truck drivers get their driving license suspended, men will have their trade licenses suspended as well. They'll toss him in jail, causing him to lose whatever job he has. It's easy to become economically trapped. It's idiotic.

Add to that, men who a cuckold fathers, whose children are not biologically theirs and are victims of reproductive fraud, are still forced to support those children - even when they can prove the child isn't theirs. In California, for example, a man has only two years to challenge paternity. After that, he's on the hook as an indentured slave to support another man's child. And the state welfare agencies will send out bills to men who have never met the mother, giving very short time periods to respond. Fail to respond, and you are irrebuttably stuck with the payments. Our family law here is evil and exploitive toward men.

[jbrasseul]

Sailing, I think not. But if you sail to Texas and then put your boat on a truck, yes.
It's possible. A bit expensive though...

[Skipperart]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

I hear you bro. Who says the US doesn't have debtor's prisons? There are a lot of people, mostly men, who couldn't pay child support and ended up in jail - who might disagree with that assertion.

Child support and visitation rights are treated as "separate issues." So many men are paying while being deprived of any role of fatherhood.

That is so true
A friend from Peru became a us citizen and lost his passport due to child support issues.
I still kept my Peruvian passport and stayed as a resident.
They cant take the peruvian passport.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Skipperart

That is so true
A friend from Peru became a us citizen and lost his passport due to child support issues.
I still kept my Peruvian passport and stayed as a resident.
They cant take the peruvian passport.

Technically, when you took the oath of citizenship, you were supposed to give it up.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Technically, when you took the oath of citizenship, you were supposed to give it up.

Lots of people have multiple passports. How does that happen?

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Technically, when you took the oath of citizenship, you were supposed to give it up.

The United States permits dual/multiple citizenship. You can be a US citizen (natural or naturalized) and have as many foreign nation passports as you like.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

[steffan]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

The United States permits dual/multiple citizenship. You can be a US citizen (natural or naturalized) and have as many foreign nation passports as you like.

+1, and the US has no claim on your other passport(s), they can only be revoked by the issuer(s).

[JSSailem]

My understanding, a US citizen (with identification and birth certificate) can sail out into international waters and even transit waters of other countries (as long as they do not anchor or go ashore) and return to US waters with out a passport. Note you will be watched as you leave and approach US waters and likely be boarded as you come into harbor for an inspection (are you carrying contraband, medically at risk, etc) but you should be permitted to return from international waters with out a passport.

Commercial Fishermen cruise from Seattle to Alaska, without checking into Canada, following this negotiated right to passage thru Canadian waters.

Now the practicality of the adventure without a passport is suspect.

[lituya1617]

I am not a lawyer. But I have had reason to study the problem of U S Passports and offer what I know here. The passport is an identification for a citizen of the USA entitled to protection of our government. Good luck with getting any real protection from this country if you are in trouble abroad, but that is the basic idea. The Secretary of State can refuse to issue a passport or revoke or limit one for many "reasons" and it is unlikely that the federal courts will overturn his decision; they have seldom done so. One area that may result in passport denial is political or religious speech; however, the courts do protect these 1st Amendment rights and have ordered passports be issued when the reason for denial was membership in the communist party, for example. As is usual for the federal courts, all the judges of which are political appointees and slavishly follow the lead of the executive as against the individual whenever possible, a citizen has an expensive and uphill battle to get his rights enforced, especially when a federal official has ruled against those rights in cases of passport denial. Your actual "rights" usually give way to the innate bias of the courts. However, if you have a lot of money and time, you might force the government to issue a passport if the case is presented properly and there are no actual written circumstances in the law that allow denial. If you owe child support, back taxes, are a child molester, have smuggled children, want to travel to Cuba or join ISIS or some terrorist group, or any other listed reason for passport denial, you have no case. You will not get a U S passport if the SOS doesn't want you to get one. Now, a passport is really only needed because some foreign official demands you have one to enter their country. Most other countries don't give a hoot whether or not your passport is real and they have no way or time to spend checking if it is a forgery. I'm not suggesting anyone commit a crime, but high quality forged passports are available with just a little searching. They cost around $100 in NYC. These will not pass passport control if you are trying to get into the USA from a foreign country, but they will work just fine in many other countries. An American does not need a passport to re-enter the USA anyway. Passport control and ICE will have a fit but they have to let you in even if you don't have a passport. And you don't have to tell them how you managed to get on an airplane to get here. After all, I assume the hypothetical person only wishes to travel and enjoy the liberty to which I believe all citizens are entitled despite the crap laws written to limit our freedom without real cause. I happen to know that it is possible to bribe foreign officials and have a passport and nationalization papers issued very rapidly in certain other countries - all you have to do is get there with some cash and very carefully research who will actually do what you want. There are lots of scammers who will take your money but fail to get a valid passport. That said, it is done and is possible. Bribery of a foreign official is a federal felony. I do not advocate that. Some countries will accept you as a political refugee and issue a passport to you if you carefully set up the background needed. Cuba is a warm and welcoming place for people oppressed in the USA but they will not take you just because you failed to pay child support or owe taxes. Cuba not only welcomed me but offered me a professorship in a huge medical school just because I was known to be oppressed in the USA. BTW Cuba is a really nice place to live. Where there is a will and some cash, there is usually a way. Leaving the USA is pretty easy and one should always remember that your papers only have to be good enough for the host country, not this country. I am now too old to travel so all this no longer matters to me but I certainly understand how a person might want to leave this place. Unfortunately, not many other countries are better if you have a conflict with the law, owe taxes, etc.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

The United States permits dual/multiple citizenship. You can be a US citizen (natural or naturalized) and have as many foreign nation passports as you like.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html

I understand, they don't enforce it but if you keep the extra passport, that suggests you lied under oath to obtain citizenship.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I understand, they don't enforce it but if you keep the extra passport, that suggests you lied under oath to obtain citizenship.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...s-citizen.html



On US visas:

Unlike other self-respecting countries, the US has no "passport control" over aliens exiting the US. That's how people easily overstay their visas here and never get caught. We don't keep track on when they leave because we just don't know. I've known people who overstayed a tourist visa for years, and then after visiting their home country, just got another fresh US tourist visa. It's a major reason why we have so many "undocumented" people here. That "wall" we're building needs to be 50,000 high if we want to stop airplanes. Or, we could just do like everyone else and have passport control accounting for alien exits. Stay too long - no more visas.