The morality of interactions with the locals

[mako]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Stories abound from 10 or 20 years ago of people trading flashlight batteries or tobacco for fish, woodcarvings, or meals that are worth tens or perhaps hundreds of times more.

Yes and I make sure not to take their photos because I don't want to steal their souls . Seriously I think those trading stories are more from the 1940's and 50's before we became such a globalized society. Anyway, I could see the attraction of keeping some generators or other items onboard that could be traded in remote islands, assuming they don't already have regular freighter service dropping things off.

I'd be curious to know if anyone here actually does trade these days in this modern world (might be worth a new thread).

Originally Posted by Jammer

Do you believe your interactions and trades have a positive influence on others? Do you leave every island a better place than it was when you arrived? What steps do you take to be sure you're dealing with the locals in a respectful and uplifting way?

Non-boating, I have lived in the Middles East and Asia for a decade now, Spent time living in Syria before the war chased me out. I always felt like a bit of an "ambassador" to my country and tried to bring positive interactions with the locals, especially since the relations between our governments were quite hostile.

[daletournier]

I was thinking yesterday that us cruisers actually overrate the impact we have while visiting places along the way. The reality is few places are untouched or even close to untouched , they maybe geographically isolated but not isolated by technology. Very few places I go aren't "connected" and with that connection comes a greater impact than we will ever let lose on the locals.

I drove 800 km across a Namibia desert yesterday, I had Internet the whole way! This is what got me thinking. Over the years I've been amazed at the extent of coverage I've seen.

Our influence is widely spread regardless of us rocking good up in our boats.

[Sojourner]

Before I lucked into a little money not so long ago (which I immediately blew on a boat and some small investments to allow for cruising), I was pretty broke. Born to political refugees in Libya broke. Anything I made, I'd parlay into a cheap ticket somewhere, pack a shirt and toothbrush in a plastic grocery bag, and hit the road on foot for months to some very poor places in the world, mainly because I could afford to travel there. Japan? Hahahahahaha never seen it. Upcountry Myanmar, or bihar state, siberia or western sahara? yeah, I could afford that. But even there, I was presumed rich because I was able to get there, period. Even if I told them I walked across the border, which I did more than once or twice, it was STILL more than a truly poor person could manage. I couldn't argue. But I did haggle like my life depended on it, just like everyone else.

Now in a big boat that sailed across the world, there's no plausible deniability. I'll be going around to some of these same places, and I've thought about this a lot... and I'm ashamed to say a lot of my thoughts revolve around 'security'. Which might be smart and valid, but still feels dirty. As I got a little more money and began traveling by motorbike and VW bus, it was already apparent how much richer the average mobile person is in so many countries. Like others here said (living on a pension) I still don't have unlimited funds to hand out. So I volunteered a lot to feel better about myself, sponsored some kids here and there (put a little khmer girl through college in fact, almost another one till her family told me after years she needs to quit school to work in the fields instead of college). I don't know what I'm getting at here, except try to give back, but not necessarily in paying twice what things cost...that drives up prices for everyone, not just travelers. Volunteer your time and skills; not much call for that here in mallorca, but later we plan to do that cruising. Two of us have tefl english teaching certs, and that's always a good one, but even if you don't, go be a guest speaker even for an hour at a local school. Let the kiddos ask you questions about sailing and practice their language with a native speaker. Take them out in the dinghy, let them teach you how to fish. That sort of stuff I'm looking forward to doing. It can be frustrating as hell.... a long time ago in Cambodia, way before tourists started coming around, there was a beach down south near kep. Beautiful arc of sand COVERED in plastic and fishing refuse. One morning I crawled out of my hut and just started picking that **** up. In about 20 minutes, I had a dozen street kids running around bringing me trash...we cleaned that beach up by lunch, and I made some funny little friends. There were a few tourists at the only place up the beach back then, just stared like I was a freak, but didn't lift a finger. But the sad thing was, the locals didn't lift a finger either. Busy living their lives, much harder than mine, I know. So pick up some trash in exchange for their hospitality.

Since we're one of the few 'queer' boats I've seen floating around, we're trying to organize some lgbt....something....for queer youths in some of these places. It's hard enough still growing up in the EU or the US... can't imagine what a jamaican kid goes thru, so a day out sailing might be something. Or it might get him beat up. I have no idea. Probably through local organizations is best... Not really the right forum to ask for advice on that, but in case anyone has an idea, hit me up.

Anyway, my point is as cruisers we have money, which we can't hide. But we also have TIME. Give some of that instead?

What was this thread even about?! Coffee rant over...

[jimbunyard]

The last two threads (at least) surely seem to indicate that 'morality' is, at best, a relative concept. Perhaps we should change the operative word to 'ethicality' for even more --- 'breadth'...

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

.

Anyway, my point is as cruisers we have money, which we can't hide. But we also have TIME. Give some of that instead?
:

Great post worthy of Lazarus Long . [emoji106]

[Exile]

An interesting sailing couple who's providing professional veterinary services to underserved areas in the Caribbean. They have a youTube channel as well.

https://www.vettails.com

[hodgmo]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Do you believe your interactions and trades have a positive influence on others? Do you leave every island a better place than it was when you arrived? What steps do you take to be sure you're dealing with the locals in a respectful and uplifting way?

The interactions described by James Baldwin in his account of his mid-80s circumnavigation (on a Triton!), IMO, approach the ideal answers to these questions. And I very much enjoyed reading it...

https://www.amazon.com/Across-Island.../dp/B00738SYEG

[TigerPaws]

Generally speaking I leave the locals alone and they leave me alone. Occasionally I will do a favor for a local marina or hotel and it is expected that they will do me a favor in return sometime in the future.

Favors are like money in the bank, maybe I will need them, maybe I will not but it never hurts to have someone owe you a favor.

I will (generally) always help a fellow cruiser, not the sailing tourists out for a week of drinking and making trouble on a rental boat.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by TigerPaws

Occasionally I will do a favor for a local marina or hotel

Wow, I thought we were talking about individuals and communities of humans, not interactions with profit-making businesses.

And likely in locations without many (if any) marinas or hotels.

[CatNewBee]

We are talking about remote island cultures, like Ireland, Great Britain, French polynesia, American Samoa, BVI and all the other (ex-) colonies...

[TigerPaws]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wow, I thought we were talking about individuals and communities of humans, not interactions with profit-making businesses.

And likely in locations without many (if any) marinas or hotels.

There was a time when I circumnavigated the globe, visiting all of those exotic locations, still I had very little contact with the locals. Back then things were a bit different, there were less people sailing and cruising the more remote islands especially in the South Pacific. Additionally is was generally safer then, today I would not stop at many of the locations I did in years past.

Now I simply sail between Bermuda and the southern Caribbean, staying as long as I like and leaving when I feel the urge to follow that Wondering Star.

Wherever you go in the world, there are good people, bad and very bad people as well as those who simply want to be left alone.

Personally I do my best to leave most people alone and I simply ask that they leave me alone. They do not care about me and I do not care about them. There is nothing that says that I or anyone else must leave a place better than when they arrived.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

. I don't know what I'm getting at here, except try to give back, but not necessarily in paying twice what things cost...that drives up prices for everyone, not just travelers. Volunteer your time and skills; not much call for that here in mallorca, but later we plan to do that cruising.

^^^^^^^^^This.

[Alan Mighty]

Seems (1) practising medicine when not registered to do so locally; and (2) handing out medications not registered locally (and without a prescription from a locally-registered physician) might be no-nos:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...m-lombok-.html

[chuckr]

I guess a lot of it is fitting in regardless. We are in Israel and I am very much a Christian and make no bones about it. We found a couple of pork stores and say how great it is that we can get pork here - nothing better than bacon and egg breakfast. The folks here could care less what or who I am - I am a sailor and people all over have accepted us regardless of where - marina, west bank, arab areas, everywhere -


The other day the folks on both side of us invited to a boater potluck after a race that we did sail in. That was after the week before we sat on a boat with a few of their friends and finished a couple of bottles of brown and white stuff (we provided the white stuff - Raki) - most of the conversation was in Hebrew but a bit in English as it has been in almost all the ports we have been in. Israel is by far the most accepting country we have been to and we have been to over 60.


It is just being nice and accepting to all. WE DO NOT DISCUSS POLITICS OR RELIGION. If asked we make our views known with no hesitation but we do not make judgement calls on their politics except when I wear my MAGA hat in some places. For example when we were in Russia we were asked what we thought of Pres Putin. I simply said he was a leader and left it at that. In Israel we have been asked about their PM and we simply say he is your elected leader. Same in Turkey - no MAGA hat in Turkey.


As for religion we have been in all sorts of places of worship and treat each with respect as who are we to judge.

[mako]

Originally Posted by chuckr

WE DO NOT DISCUSS POLITICS OR RELIGION.

Brother, following the above advice has kept me alive in many situations. Words of wisdom when outside the 1st world.