Selling my boat

[gonesail]

if he wants it done .. let him do it .. after he buys the boat.

[Reeve21]

Before making an offer on an older boat I inquired and found out that that the rigging had never been replaced by the original owner of 20 plus years (salt water). I expected the surveyor to call it out (he did), even if a full visual inspection was OK (it was), and the insurance company to require replacement (they did).

What kept the deal together is that the seller and I both knew about it up front, the seller accepted that it was overdue, and the price we agreed upon reflected the cost of replacement, which I did after purchasing.

All of this took place this past summer.

The OP's boat is approaching 20 years in salt water. If the rigging has never been done I think what he can get for it in the market will reflect that.

Some days I miss my Freedom

[Shanachie]

When I read rigging threads, I always think of the old Dirty Harry line: "The question is, do you feel lucky?"


I bought a 25-footer in 2000 that had been raced hard. The original rigging was 26 years old. The p.o. was extremely lucky that the mast didn't come down on her head.


The 30-footer I bought in 2008 had 8-year-old rigging that was just fine for another 10 years.



My current boat, a 1998 320, was rerigged five years ago just after I bought it. It had been lightly used, but the backstay was coming apart.


My rule of thumb is that you're living on borrowed time after 15 years.



I do have to add, $7,500 to rerig a 320? Yeow. California prices, I guess. I had mine done by a great shop in St. Petersburg, Fl., for 2.5K total. A crane at the dock. Measure, make up the new ones and screw them in.



That was pre-covid, though. I hear the new owner has raised prices considerably.

[Eder]

The 10 year thing I believe is mostly due to catamarans going thru rigging a lot faster than monos but many insurance companies don't differentiate.


My rig was 10 years old after a lot of crossing miles...I had to get a rigging inspection before leaving Hawaii to Victoria.


My current insurer is fine with my now 13 year old rig anywhere between Seattle and Sitka.



Tell the buyer to find another insurer.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by SqPeg

I have located a buyer for my 2004 Catalina 320. He had it surveyed. That was OK for a boat of that vintage but he claims that the standing rigging should be replaced every 10 years and he wants it done. Thoughts?

If your boat is priced right, that price would consider the age of the rig. If you are asking more than average for the boat, then it probably should have newer rigging or offer a discount. If it is priced lower than similar boats, then the discount is already built in.

You could probably make a few phone calls to the sellers of other Catalina's and ask them about their boats.

[BlueH2Obound]

OP hasn't been back since he started this thread. Here is his classified ad:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-a-279070.html

I'm not a good judge of the value of this boat, but from the pics, it appears to be in nice condition, at least inside, although no mention is made re/ the age of the rigging.

The ad reads like a manufacturer sales brochure, full of bling, but short on details. No mention of engine hours, condition of rigging, number and condition of sails, no close up exterior shots, no mention of ground tackle, when last hauled, type and condition of any electronics (if installed). But assuming the buyer did his due diligence prior to submitting an offer, and asked even the basic questions, If it were my boat, it would be back on the market since the "looker" has rejected the purchase based on the survey, and is now trying to renegotiate a lower price.

The "looker" would be free to submit a new offer if it doesn't sell in the meantime to someone else, and thereby graduate from a "looker" to a "buyer". Until that point, it's all just talk . . .

[Shanachie]

Another factor is that not many Catalina 320s come on the market, and they are great boats. It's not like you can go to the next marina and pick another one.


The 320 is extremely fast for its size -- I regularly pass or keep up with boats as large as 38 feet -- and it ably handles all coastal seas except for a strong headwind.


(You'll not make much progress motoring into a headwind because the flat bottom slams into short, steep waves.)


The 320 is so well-balanced that the king spoke is always close to straight up. My autopilot only makes minor adjustments as long as the wind is low 20s or weaker.



It's also as roomy as the old 38-footers, with a queen-sized aft cabin, and it is designed to make maintenance a snap. Almost -- almost -- everything is easily accessible and a breeze to work on.


You wouldn't want to circumnavigate with it, but it's wonderful for the type of sailing most of us do.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I don't get this 10 year replacement thing. Who came up with this number and why ??
Why not 9.5 years ? etc, etc.
Does it matter if the boat is in fresh water or salt water?
Was the boat raced ?

I've never had rigging replaced...not ever.

Seems to me that the insurance folk are stepping into a field they are not qualified to do so. Maybe somewhere, sometime, some rigging failed on a particular boat for an unknown reason, and now all boats get thrown under the bus so to speak.

Insurance companies tend to have a knee jerk reaction whenever someone files a claim. They don't like paying claims, they only like picking up your monthly dues.

Rant over. If the new buyer wants new rigging, tell him he is free to do so, once he has purchased the boat.

These numbers are generally pulled out of a hat by insurance companies..
However, commercial lifting slings, wire or soft , shackles, pins etc are generally declared condemned after 10 years.
In between all lifting gear is inspected visually for cracks or other damages every 3 month or so.
On your private boat anyone can do an inspection.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Plenty of other boats to look at and chose from.

Tell the buyer he is free to look at other boats.....simple...take it or leave it...

Re-rigging is an expensive and time consuming project, can be done in the water or mast needs to be pulled.

Where does this stop. New electronics, new bottom paint, new sails,,,???

That's like buying a used car and expecting the seller to put new tires on it for you.
Ha ha, that will be the day...

No need to pull the mast..

[Stewie12]

Best consult the sales contract to see if you have to fix anything that is brought up in the survey.

[gromit]

I would suggest to the buyer that it would be in his or her interest to have this work done by them, not by you. They would be the ones making the critical decisions regarding the type of wire, terminals, and how the work was to be accomplished on “their” boat. If something went wrong with it, they would be the ones to have things made right. If they use the boat in their area, then then the rigging should be done by someone close to their home port. If you were the one to make the decision, you would probably be motivated to do so at the cheapest cost, which could translate into a rig that is not as sound as the present rig, and then you have the question of warranty. Would the any warranty be transferable to the new owner? And if you DID have the work done, and they walked away from the boat, you’d have that extra time and expense. If the interested parties do not see the logic in this, then they aren’t the ones for your boat. At best, I would offer a slight price reduction based on the estimated cost of replacing the rig, based on your estimation of cost, not theirs. Yes, insurance companies may not accept the present rig, but I would ask to see proof of that argument rather than just heresay. Your boat is a very popular boat, and there will be other buyers.

[kingle]

I saw two dis-masted boats last year and heard one on channel 16. Wake up calls. My rigger sees a few every year. Both my sail maker and rigger recommend replacement at 10-20 years. I also have a 2004 boat and am going to have the rig replaced in 2025. I saw a listing for a boat like mine that had new sails and new rig. It commanded a higher price as a result. So, in my mind, not unreasonable and I have heard some insurance companies mandating at 10+ years. I think dropping your price 3-5k might do the trick.
If I were buying a 2004 - both the sails and rig would be an issue.

[jlubinsky]

Another viewpoint. With over 1,000 real estate transactions/ sales experience it's airways good to know the motivation of the buyer when negotiating. Though a boat is more a luxury vs a home, a boat buyer's motivations can help you decide if you want to stand pat or give up some $$. Eg. If buyer has looked at many other boats? Why are they buying now? What is their sailing plans for the next year? Have they walked away from other deals? How much have they invested so far in this deal eg. Travel, survey ,etc? Many buyers just want to see how much they can get from the seller but will still buy without the big price concession. Lastly, how motivated are you? You need this deal now or can you wait for another if this one walls away? Best wishes Jim

[sailcub]

I bought my 320 (#112) in 1994 and sold it in 2006....no rigging issues at all---I did have a rigger do an inspection every other year....rigging was in excellent shape at sale

[stvnm]

The age of the rigging is known (or knowable by the diligent prospective buyer) before the survey and so that rigging has a finite life span. If the survey offered no new information (e.g. cracks or other faults) the age of the rigging does not qualify as a negotiating point after the survey. Good luck.