Is Singlehanding >24 Hrs. Morally Wrong?

[conachair]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I wonder if a single person, knowing that he is 100% responsible for his own safety, is more diligent than the average crew on autopilot, all believing that someone else is also watching... when in fact they are not. Many anecdotes have been recited. I'm quite sure I am more diligent when alone, not distracted by company.

Are singlehanders (when they are not napping) fundamentally less distracted?

----.

Well ultimately the universe is all, about probabilities, apart from maths and internet forums where it's more likely to be completely black or white

IMHO generally the more experienced single handers tend not be more "switched on" about everything. Which isn't just the chance on hitting something or something hitting you. Also don't get hurt out there, which means Careful round the boom and galley and anything else which could bite you. Means trying to put the odds in your favour with the boat mechanics /electrics keeping going. Enough simple systems to keep the boat moving til you get to the other side. A hundred and one little things, solo you are navigator, engineer, cook, weather forecaster....
So probably yes lot of solo sailors are more diligent in lots of ways.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I missed seeing a container ship one night coming into Hampton Roads due to light pollution. There are bridge lights, street lights, car lights, buoy and channel marker lights, boat lights, stop lights, and range marker lights which can create problems seeing the lights of boats/ships

I certainly agree. I have had the same problem as your example on more than one occasion - once when there were myself and three crew aboard.

I have single-handed up and down the east coast several times. On my route there are two overnighters - about 16 to 18 hours sailing time. Then I go into an inlet, anchor, sleep until I am rested and start again, and I never nap on watch. With AIS and Radar on I may sit and rest my back and eyes for a few for a few minutes, but have never fallen asleep (at least not yet).

Single handing or fully crewed is as safe (or as dangerous) as you make it.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[jlcnuke]

Morality is in the eye of the beholder. What is considered moral changes based on society and individuals. Even today, what is considered moral in one country is considered immoral and outlawed in another country. Since morality is subjective, I don't believe that anyone can accurately answer if something contentious is "moral". Even those things universally considered immoral tend to change, so everyone agreeing may not even mean anything just a short time later as history has shown us.

I think a better question would be "is it an unacceptable increase in risk to singlehand for greater than 24 hours". To answer that, imo, would require data that showed the relative risk of a singlehanded trip over 24 hours and a crewed trip over 24 hours (i.e. the rate of incidents each type of voyage has historically resulted in). That's data which I don't think exists anywhere reliably.

Without reliable data, we're stuck with evaluating "common sense" and "personal thoughts" as well as "anecdotal evidence". Common sense says that being asleep with alarms set for short periods of time in the open ocean is unlikely to result in a collision: as closing speed would have to be high AND at the same time neither vessel was seeing and/or able to take action AND the alarm systems either failed or were inadequate to provide time for corrective action AND that the sleeping portion of the trip was of sufficient duration during that window to result in all that happening while a person was asleep and unable to perform their own visual lookout.

Is it "more likely" than a "properly manned vessel" that a collision would occur? Common sense initially says "of course, because that one has a lookout at all time". Common sense also tells us that "lookouts often aren't looking out at all times" though, so maybe not so much.

Personal thoughts vary by individual (as their personal thoughts..). Mine are that done properly (with proper assistance from technology, minimizing speed when not "on watch" personally, having short enough sleep intervals etc) it likely has only a marginal increase in risk of collision compared to a vessel with 24/7 "people" on watch. Certainly not a significant enough increase in risk imo to justify regulating it.

Anecdotal evidence - I don't have any personal evidence to share other than the lack of evidence I've seen suggesting singlehanding is resulting in a lot of unnecessary accidents.

[thinwater]

When is someone going to add the topic of drones. A proper lookout is kept through electronic means and a computer.

Is no-handing wrong?

Yes, I'm just trying to stir things up.

[alley]

Had a chance to look things up:

COLREGS RULE 5 Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

Underlined portions of the quote imply it must be a human lookout that can see, hear and think.

"...all available means appropriate..." covers the use of electronic and mechanical aids to maintenance of a proper lookout.

The part about the lookout being a dedicated person is interpretive in the sense that I have been told that courts assume the definition of a lookout to be a person not also tasked with other duties. There is some legal precedent to the helmsman of a vessel being excluded from being a "proper lookout".

Hope this helps.

[PuttingDoctor]

For what it’s worth I as a singlehanded sailor am well equipped for such times as when offshore I will nap in the cockpit. Generally this is at night. Under most night sails I will run the engine, this keeps the batteries well charged as I light up like a Christmas tree. My AIS class B transponder allows me to set alarms for CPA / TCPA in addition to my 4G radar alarms set for non-AIS targets.

I set a timer alarm for 60 minutes but rarely sleep more than 45 minutes before waking. I then check all systems. I reset the timer and repeat.

For those who think this offshore behavior puts them at risk you have my apologies for being narrow minded. Many a crewed boat has run afoul of others when the watch fell asleep or was inattentive.

For the record I also fly singlehanded and make a lot of night flights over long distances vs daylight as I like the lit targets and the calmer air at night.

Immoral ..... not even close in what I feel is my experience. Yours may vary, I have you in sight.

[kmartind]

With the right preparation no it's not morally questionable. If you have the right lights, equipment and understand where your at than I say no way. If you are going through shipping channels and other heavy traffic areas than I would say that it is wrong to not be also maintaining a physical lookout at all times.

Quantity of people on a boat does not equate to good or bad watch standards being completed. Look at the US Navy incidents recently. One properly prepared person is better than 5 poorly prepared people.

Make sure your vessel can be seen both visually (physically) and on others radar.

[Kelkara]

There is however no definition in the COLREGS of what is a "proper" lookout, all the COLREGS specify is that whatever it is you are doing you must be able to make a "full appraisal of the situation" while using your eyes and ears.

Despite sometimes having great publicity ... single-handers are not prosecuted for making safe passages ... nor are they prevented from leaving on grounds that single-handing makes for a manifestly unsafe voyage ... So it appears that many jurisdictions are happy to treat it as legal ... so even if a court could decide that it were illegal, law-enforcement clearly considers it as a lesser crime than having out-of-date flares.

There is some legal precedent to the helmsman of a vessel being excluded from being a "proper lookout"

If this were the case, then single-handing on a day-sail would also be illegal.

[svfinlandia]

"Morallity is a high ground claimed by inadequate people resentful of others."

Thanks for that Boatman61. My opinion exactly!

Al, S/V Finlandia

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by GTom

Might have been derelict, Davy Jones hasn't been informed on the changes in colregs in the past 400 years.

Well considering it was under full sail, nicely trimmed and with a functioning windvane on the stern (yes it was that close) I'm pretty sure it was no derelict.

I had a second encounter about 3 miles off the coast of DE a few years ago. I was headed south along the coast and watched a sailboat exiting an inlet just ahead and set a course out to sea. We were stbd tack, he was port. Watched as our courses converged. Finally it was clear we were on a collision course and he was not going to give way so I altered course to pass astern. Not a soul on deck and the AP working. He obviously left the inlet, set sails and AP and went below for lunch or nap or what have you.

[jlcnuke]

Forgive my ignorance, but who's going to give a single-handed sailor, 100 miles from land, a "ticket" for breaking "the law" by sleeping on watch? That's the big question I have. I see plenty of ability, on the off-chance there is an incident, for a given court to find a person asleep on watch (whether singlehanding or not) "liable" if there is an incident. That doesn't make it illegal (a criminal concept in general).

I've seen lots of people talk about "legal" and "illegal", but if there is no penalty (much less enforcement outside of specific zones; a country's jurisdictional waters for instance'), then why are we calling it "illegal"?

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Yes. No one has the right to put others at risk. All the justifications and poor analogies you will receive on this thread are no more than excuses. No further explanation required. It is just that simple.

So the Vendee Globe? The Jester? Slocum? many many more.
I'l bet the stats say that the most dangerous boat on the water is an over weight 45+ year old in a powerboat filled with drunk friends and extra booze. or maybe anyone of the drunk canadians trawlers I dodge every summer in the San Juans. Kids? ya kids in boats are dangerous too, BAN EM, to hell with it lets BAN everything that is out of line with what we think. OH!! wait a minute, this small little microcosm of the world at large can't even agree 100% that bilgewater taste's like crap!
BAN this, BAN that, Morals? who's? the holy roman catholic church? My mother? Adolf Hitler? The world most of you live in and want to stuff down my neck is exactly why I singlehand/solo.

[alley]

Originally Posted by jlcnuke

Forgive my ignorance, but who's going to give a single-handed sailor, 100 miles from land, a "ticket" for breaking "the law" by sleeping on watch? That's the big question I have. I see plenty of ability, on the off-chance there is an incident, for a given court to find a person asleep on watch (whether singlehanding or not) "liable" if there is an incident. That doesn't make it illegal (a criminal concept in general).

I've seen lots of people talk about "legal" and "illegal", but if there is no penalty (much less enforcement outside of specific zones; a country's jurisdictional waters for instance'), then why are we calling it "illegal"?

You won't be cited unless you get caught, and most of the time you don't get caught until after there's been an accident. At that point, your indiscretions (real or perceived) will be used against you to assign liability.

In this case of single-handing irresponsibly, the penalty is the liability if you are found to have caused an accident.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by GTom

Can you quote a COLREG paragraph for that? Mid Atlantic how come that set radar alarm, AIS, navlights, VHF doesn't fulfill the "proper lookout" term? I don't remember that a human has to do the lookout all the time.

Check the court case decision quoted in post 37.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Well considering it was under full sail, nicely trimmed and with a functioning windvane on the stern (yes it was that close) I'm pretty sure it was no derelict.

I had a second encounter about 3 miles off the coast of DE a few years ago. I was headed south along the coast and watched a sailboat exiting an inlet just ahead and set a course out to sea. We were stbd tack, he was port. Watched as our courses converged. Finally it was clear we were on a collision course and he was not going to give way so I altered course to pass astern. Not a soul on deck and the AP working. He obviously left the inlet, set sails and AP and went below for lunch or nap or what have you.

How do you know it was solo.. maybe it was like my incident.. four people down below grabbing a bite and a glass of wine..
Methinks maybe your prejudice is colouring your opinions..