Is it too early to upgrade?

[Rumrace]

You need food boat need parts. It’s the same thing. Boats poop parts.
I’ve made money on two boats. The rest I tossed away a fortune. I was born boating we have over 100 years of photos 6 generations now my grandson is like auto pilot. We love nature, mopping up dew, getting up early so you don’t miss anything doing nothing.
My theory is if your fun time is enriching you’ll earn more to enjoy more of it.
So ya upgrade and often. Loose as little time on the water as possible.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

When asked I have always said get” the biggest boat you can afford” .

That brings up a great point. Is it worth maintaining a bigger boat than what you need right now, because you think you'll want it later, or better to right size your current boat, and buy a bigger boat later when you actually need it?

Seems to me it would be the latter, until you're within a couple of years of your plans.


I've always believed that bigger boats = much bigger expenses.

[mcon12000]

Well I consider myself lucky to have bought the big boat right out of the gate. Sure like you I was shopping for a fun little 30 footer to get a feel for things but the right large boat appeared and I jumped head first. No regrets other than ever limiting my choices in the first place.

[Stewie12]

You will find that the larger boat will not be a problem after a few sails and the added space will be welcome. Go for it and spend your money on it instead of a boat that you have already outgrown.

[wgerstmyer]

No one can “answer” your question for you; the advice here has been suitable for those who gave it—mine will reflect my interests as well.

I mostly agree with the “sail the current boat more” crowd but if you are feeling your age don’t hesitate because you never know how many sailing years (knees fail, eyes fail, etc etc) you have left.

Your sailing plans are ambitious in terms of skills. There was a recent story in Sailing about a 16 yo boy novice crossing the Atlantic solo in 28 non-eventful days. Sure, but there’s also the recent schooner knocked down in the relatively calm waters of Eggemoggin reach.

Test yourself and test several boats a long time before you convince yourself you’ve found the final boat (and before you put any serious money in one).

Happy sailing.

[cdcorl]

There are no right or wrong answers, but you’ll get lots of advice. Here is mine… I wouldn’t upgrade. If you wanted a bigger boat, and were planning on staying home, I would seriously consider an upgrade. If you want to start sailing the Caribbean, and eventually cross the Atlantic, you might want to get some more sailing experience before deciding on what boat you want. Some of the newer boats will be five years older by the time you leave, and maybe you want one of those. If your 30 footer has what it needs to keep you happy for five years, you can also take the extra money you would be spending on maintenance and slip rental for the next five years and add it to year Purchase price of a new boat. Again, there are no right answers, but buying a boat a couple years before you’re ready to leave, and working on the upgrades you want to do might make more sense. Also, there are lots of boats you will likely fall in love with as you spend more time on the water. Buying the boat is not a bad decision. Personally I would wait.

[jerryf609]

My advice is to keep the C30 for another season or two minimum. Be smart about upgrades. You dont have to make the C30 have everything you eventually want on a boat unless you decide to keep it for a long time. You probably dont need a new prop. I have 2 blade. Heads can often be renewed with kits without full replacement. New head hoses are more of a labor issue than cost to buy. And same for engine hoses. I did pay for a dodger but just got an inexpensive matching sunscreen to cover the cockpit rather than a full bimini. And it also helps in a rain but not as good as a bimini but much less money.

Try to defer other major expenses other than those that make it safe and depenable until you sort out your plans.

In the meantime you gain a lot of experience and confidence and have a chance to see a lot of other boats. Your idea of the perfect forever boat may change over the next few years.

[ed boyle]

With only 80 hours you are not ready to upgrade. When you have back out of your slip 80 times you might be ready. Remember those extras you want maybe on a boat but how old are they no electronic devices are guaranteed to work.

[whiskyjack]

A Gentleman should have a yacht of length in feet equal to his age in years. That works from age 8 to maybe 50. I am not so sure about the next 30 years!

[jerryf609]

Originally Posted by whiskyjack

A Gentleman should have a yacht of length in feet equal to his age in years. That works from age 8 to maybe 50. I am not so sure about the next 30 years!

Ha ha. Good one. I am 72 with a C30. So apparently I'm young for my age.

[SVNarlieChance]

I found my dream boat in my Pacific Seacraft 40. It's an incredible blue water cruiser and love it. But it wasn't without some consideration.

My first sailboat (CAL 25) with an outboard motor, tiller and hank on jib. I had no idea....I had never sailed and wanted a boat with a cabin that I could afford. Fortunately she was a great boat. I found Lake Canyon Yacht Club and it's a fantastic sailing club where I learned to sail, and found my 2nd sailboat. I upgraded to a Hunter 27. Just a tad bigger but with a roller furling jib, steering wheel and inboard motor. She was still very basic with little complications but perfect for me learning to sail and learning to love sailing. My love of sailing grew over the next few years and I went on to take ASA 101, 103 and 104 in a 39' Benneteau.

I then had a change in my direction and moved back to Florida. It was fate or destiny as I met a skipper of a 27' Bristol and became first mate. We taught new sailors as we needed crew to manage day sails and overnight adventures on the west coast of Florida near St Pete/Anna Maria Island. My skipper had been working on his top 50 blue water cruisers for many years. He graciously sent me his list with the pros and cons. At the top of the list was a Pacific Seacraft 44 then the Pacific Seacraft 40. The 44 was too far out of my budget but the 40..... I started scouring the boating sites and found one close by to look at. I loved the layout but it was a sloop rig and I really wanted a cutter rig. So I just kept looking. About a year later, I found my dream boat.

Going from a 27' ft sloop to a 40' cruiser is really crazy. I knew it was a lot more boat for my skills and I was sure that I wasn't ready. But, I am so unbelievably happy that I'm living aboard and taking my time to learn all of the much more complex systems on her.

My advise is sail more, find a great sailing club, learn what you want for your cruiser boat then....Live your dream!

[Rumrace]

I’d jump and upgrade. The Catalina will sell quick.
The 461 is a bit much I get that but heck of a boat vs 473 all the Beneteau Jeanneau models the 40’ hulls I think are the sweet zone for a healthy average cruiser.
I agree on twin wheels they make sense. It’s the two small rudders that make it less capable in bluewater apparently. They sail like they are on rails.
I’m liking the 440 SO other than the but ugly bow thruster.
The 380 which replace my model is a way better boat by the jury is out if it sails better.
Your current boat would normally be depreciating and every day you put off the upgrade costing you equity. Not the case right now but as a recession grabs hold the value will start to drop and not return. It’s a good time to sell used and new seems a better deal.
If you like centre cockpits but need mobility look at the Jeanneau Deck Salons. Same hull as the SO with a raised deck. One of them is a looser because the fabulous aft suit has one operating window the others are fixed. Other models have 3 openings.
The aft cabin in Some is amazing.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Mountainbiker

Was considering a Bene 423 and started to look around few weeks ago.

Background: We (my wife and I) are somewhat new to sailing. We took our ASA101 and 103 last winter, and then bought a Catalina 30 last spring and have about 80 hrs of sailing on it this season. The initial plan was to hold onto the C30 for a few years and then “move up". I do like the C30 and we bought it as a learning boat and to make sure my wife and I wanted to commit to sailing. We are certainly sold on wanting a boat and spending significant time on it.

Goal: In (+-) 5 yrs, take a leave from Work for a few months (hopefully more) and leave New England for a sail to Guadeloupe (having been French when I was young). Dream: When we retire or hit the jackpot, Atlantic crossing to sail Northern Euro (Ireland, Scotland, Faroe, Norway, Sweden) countries and then the Pays Basque and Portugal.

I am now "thinking" about a much earlier upgrade than initially planned. Boats obviously take a lot work. I don't mind it (and still have sooo much to learn), but would rather spend that time on a boat and systems that I am going to keep. Boats take a lot of money (duh!): I didn't quite realize how much... Again, would rather spend that on a boat I am going to keep. A C30 will only be worth so much regardless of what you replace/add to it (ie: will have to eventually replace the head, the hoses, the steering quadrant, the lines, the furler, adding a bimini, new bow roller for new anchor, more chain, new prop, etc) so don't want to to turn the C30 into a hole of no return.

Initial dream boat was a center cockpit boat but are now realizing ease of getting around is pretty important to both us (winch location, getting around the help, sugarscoop, companion way, etc...), as is having a berth w/ a hatch right over us (she gets hot and I am terrible sleeper so watching the starts rock back and forth is awesome). Though if I could find a Taswell 43 or a Contest 44 or even 43, on the East US coast, I would buy that instantly.

The 473 from the seat of the interweb looked like a great boat but having looked at a 461, it’s just way too big and will end being way too much boat (even w/ lots more experience) and out of our budget (especially with marina cost going up). We recently had the chance of going on a 2004 423 (double berth) at the dock and really like it. Would have preferred a double helm but cockpit space seemed otherwise good and quality for a Bene looked great (more storage for clothing would be nice!). Looked at Sun Odyssey 42DS this weekend and though the cockpit was great, we really didn’t like the rest of the boat.

Anyways, (sorry to drone on) I now find myself of two minds and totally torn: On one side, I worry that moving to a 42 ft boat is too big of a leap this early, especially the part where we are on a mooring ball and have only docked the C30 a few times, and it will be also too big of a boat to manage: you can’t control all the variables and s**t is going to happen that you are not ready for, even when you have tried hard to account or prepare for it ahead of time!. Also, now is not the time to buy a big boat as the market is inflated.

On the other hand, other than docking (though it has a bow thruster), the bene would actually be much more of a predicable boat even though it will be/feel bigger. The C30 felt huge on our first few sails but we got used to it. As mentioned I would much rather spend this winter time and money on a boat I am going to keep “forever”. Now to make matters worse, a 423 is now listed for sale 15 mins from our home and looks to priced very right, in good condition, w/ most of the extras we were looking for on boat.

So, is God testing me with temptation I should resist, or am I being offered a gift?

To upgrade and "just wing it" is way to early. 80 hours of sailing is not enough time to have had stuff go wrong.

But, you could consider hiring a coach. To be clear-I am not in NE, so not a candidate. But you want to hire a delivery captain, who can teach vs an ASA Instructor who has marginal blue water experience. Sail with that person a few days in protected waters. Then practice on your own.

Then do a few crossings with that person. Yes it is going to cost you few boat-bucks... But you will be better trained than most...

And like I said ---- I am NOT selling a job, as I am down in FLA. and there are guys much closer than me.

[Leighpilot]

I hate to add to your problems but here are a few things you need to know before starting anything

You say you “were” French. Has that changed ? If you’re not an EU citizen ( and your wife too ) you’ll be limited to 90 days in the EU every 180 days. So forget a lazy year cruising the Mediterranean.

If your dream boat isn’t € certified you’ll not be able to sell it in the EU without and expensive survey and possible required modifications to meet EU standards.

I couldn’t bring my own boat here to the UK for that reason and now we’re out of the EU cruising the EU area is essentially impossible. The 90 day clock starts the moment you enter the first EU ( actually Schengen area ) country. So if I left Scotland I’d have to sail non stop to Greece if I wanted to get the full 90 days. Then I’d have either sail home or leave the boat ( boats get two years ) and come back 90 days later

[RickG]

We moved up from day sailing, Beneteau 40 (Irmaria victime, to a Beneteau 423. The users' group is solid - https://beneteau423.groups.io/g/main/topics

Visiting the French island, and English islands south of the Virgin Islands, you will have 50hz power. The older 423s have dual freq air conditioners... and both of ours died this year.

The 423 is not too big for two people cruising. I added an electric winch assist this year as hit 60 and wife no longer has the stamina to work the winches. We went the Milwaukee Tools M25 right angle drill.

We have no bow thruster. Sailing from the Chesapeake to Grenada multiple times, the only time we had boat handling problems was in marina with narrow fairways. Rub rails are good to have.

The 423 is stronger than her crew. But, her flat bottom does slam going upwind. The aft cabin can be noisy from any waves hitting the stern. The v-berth bunk is big and the forward head has a huge shower.

If we had not needed air conditioning in the summer on the Chesapeake Bay, would have gone with a Passport 40 or a Tayana 37. You can't lose with a Perry design and they are cheaper.

Cheers, RickG