Freedom of Movement Around Our Globe, Aftermath of Paris

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Should the US ever address our major open border then entire coast it might become inconvenient. as most know, you don't clear out of the US and it is VERY easy to return/enter from ANYWHERE without clearing.

Presume you're talking about USA boats returning from anywhere w/o clearing. In respect to that, no, it's not legal anymore to just come home w/o clearing in. Check out https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...tering-the-u.s. for additional information. For the past couple years (maybe 5 or so?), there's been a clearing-in fee of $27 or so and you can either pay it up front and get them to send you a 1 year sticker to put on your boat or you can pay it when you re-enter "clear" into the USA again.

While it is an easy process, it is a clearing process that is now required. Stating that is is "very easy" to return w/o clearing--I hope you're not suggesting that boaters bypass the required procedure. While staying inside the USA borders, we've been tracked and approached by homeland security vessels at night (near San Diego) and others here on the west coast have been approached many places no where near the borders. When we've actually cleared in after being outside of CONUS, the process has been painless but you have to do it.

[tomfl]

The first time I sailed to the Bahamas was on my Dad's boat when I was in the eighth grade in 1959. Anchored at Honeymoon Harbor at the North end of Gun Cay ran up the Q flag and checked in at the Cat Cay club the next day. My Dad showed his drivers license and that was that. They believed him when he said I was not old enough to have a drivers license.

Rewind to today and look at the difference, a passport is required. There is also something of a crackdown with the authorities asking papers. My understanding is this is the result of an increase in Haitians illegally entering the Bahamas.

My guess is illegal immigration is a bigger threat to freedom of movement than any other factor.

[cabo_sailor]

Ladies and gentlemen,

This thread appears to be drifting a tosh. I appreciate your concerns from the cruiser point of view, but if it drifts too far there will be cleanup on aisle 4

None of us wants that but there is only so much wiggle room allowed us.

Please try to keep it cruising related. And I am probably in so much trouble for posting this.

Oh well, so be it.

Rich


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[Schooner Chandlery]

Back to the OP's post:

Things have always been dicey -- somewhere -- worldwide for cruisers. Talk to the old salts or read those who have penned their cruising yarns, it's all the same. Pirates, wars, terrorism, drug runners, theives, Banana republics--it's just cyclical. When I read Villiers Cruise of the Conrad, I was chuckling because it all sounded so modern day with the same problems/issues in much the same places. Given that, finding a way around the hot-spots this year/decade and looking towards un-explored and un-exploited gems of cruising grounds--that's the ticket to the fun for voyagers worldwide.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Lot of revenue in tourism as well. Getting rid of the Schengen visa means telling millions of tourist not to come...


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I doubt that very much.. most travel by air on w/end to 14 day breaks to specific countries.. no time to go on an EU wide tour..
As for cruisers.. hell.. at the moment they have 90 days then out for 90 and then a new visa to come back in..
Without Schengen they can spend a whole 90 days in each country before moving on.. new visa as with Schengen minus 90 days moorings+flights home or.. a mad dash to somewhere outside for 90 days..
And.. with the EU Ports System already wired up we will be dealt with in the Ports/Marina's as normal.. no big deal and lotsa passport stamps to collect...

[GafferMate]

As a former cruiser, now simply a live-aboard (amid a large Muslim population) who is considering cruising again, I found this essay to be a serious wake-up call:

Subject: What ISIS Really Wants

The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse. Here’s what that means for its strategy—and for how to stop it.

Read More:


What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

It's human to dismiss or "I'll take care of that when it happens" when confronted with unimaginable, potentially terrifying situations, but cruisers in particular are forced to prepare themselves for such events. Failing to educate ourselves, whether or not we ever have to utilize the knowledge, is the key to our level of survival.

[avb3]

There were some legitimate questions asked by the OP. However, as usual, those that post start getting into politics that have nothing to do with sailing or start throwing out conspiracy theories.


This thread stays open for now, but please keep it to the subject at hand, otherwise it will be closed.

Thanks.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Lot of revenue in tourism as well. Getting rid of the Schengen visa means telling millions of tourist not to come...


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Er, there were more tourists before Schengen, than after . . . . .

I was very frequently one of them.

The euro did a lot of damage to tourism too.

Personally I am more worried about getting adequate of supplies of factor 15 sunscreen, than terrorists.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by alansmith

As far as saying it was only so many people died...it was how they died that it is important. Literally it was an act of war. 150 or so souls were cold blooded murdered.

Well, you seem to be mixing things up.

Murder is NOT war.

War sometimes can include murder.

This act was not war.

It was murder.

[cabo_sailor]

It seems that some of you really want this thread shut down. If the posts continue in their present tone, you will get your wish.

Come on folks, you all know the rules. Think a moment before hitting the reply icon.

I'm trying to keep this thread open for reasonable discussion. I can't do it on my own. I've got rules too.

Rich


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[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by bustermaw

So,let's get this straight.The CIA trains Bin Laden to terrorise the Russians in Afganistan and then pretends to know nothing of him when he supposedly attacks the twin towers.
They then train a bunch of religious loonies in Libya to bring down Gadaffi , afterwards shipping them off to Syria to topple Assad where they become known as ISIL. Still being armed and funded by Washington.
Remind me again , who are the terrorists ?

Don't ya just love bumper sticker assessments of reality?



To the OP - Keep calm & Cruise on.

[Goosebumps]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

Don't ya just love bumper sticker assessments of reality?



To the OP - Keep calm & Cruise on.

As OP I was hoping for CF to come up with answers to my initial questions. I am not here to educate people on their limited political or racial views but I am surprised how low some can stoop. I think I am to serioys abd expect too much from CF members. I liveaboard on African East Coast for 7years+ before that worked in 6 different African countries fir 20 + years. I did not adopt a xenophobic attitude towards Africa or Africans because of that! On the contrary I deeply enjoy it here, enjoy liveaboard on ocean where water is still crystal clear. The issue for me is that all over the globe our sailing cruising is under threat, our freedom of movement will be limited. Different factors influence this, terrorism, local politics, local culture, local marine administration and enforcement, yes also corruption. Our attitude as a yachts person towards the communities and cultures we visit also extremely important in determining how we will be received. To my experience stay calm at all times, don't be willing to pay bribes, be very respectfull, never condescending, be informed of countries regulations for entry before attempting to enter. Until now, notwithstanding the bureaucracy in some parts, we still felt relatively free to move around with yacht and enjoy the exquisite beauty of the marine environment. I can see the paranoia, fear of terrorism starting to influence things even here and that is what worries me! I think it would help all of us cruisers to share info about changes in law enforcement attitudes towards us cruisers in different parts if the globe.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by GordMay

DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson announced today that his Homeland Security team has implemented a flawless method of identifying terrorists at security checkpoints.

They call it "autopsy."

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by 70AMX

The US and Israeli Neocons, just as it's been for Decades.

As we are talking about the effects on the freedom of movement in the aftermath of Paris perhaps some peoples movements should be restricted. Especially the deranged anti ............. who deserve a good ................

I hope I haven't broken any rules but please it is highly offensive to have these haters come onto a cruisers forum and spread their hate. Anti Americans and Anti Jews are all the same. Always have been and always will be. They make me sick.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

SNIP

I can see the paranoia, fear of terrorism starting to influence things even here and that is what worries me! I think it would help all of us cruisers to share info about changes in law enforcement attitudes towards us cruisers in different parts if the globe.

What I noticed about this thread is I posted earlier about changes in entering the Bahamas from South Florida and the next post was a warning about going off topic.

I am not sure if that warning was specifically aimed at me but the point I was trying to make is while there does seem to be an increased awareness of terrorism the changes in the Bahamas were more aimed at illegal immigration. The NY Times had an article about it, so it seems fairly mainstream. Same thing is happening in the DR in deporting folks from Haiti.

While I don't have direct experience I have also been told by folks who have visited Cuba that there is a real effort to stop Cubans from trying to leave on cruising boats by the Cuban government.

Bottom line is that with few exceptions cruising boats are more likely to be checked for illegal immigration violations than suspected of terrorism.