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Goosebumps · 19-11-2015, 00:42

I can foresee the increase in yacht searches by the different maritime authorities around the globe. I am sure that those who went through serious invasive search of their yacht are not looking forward to another one. Which liveaboard has receipts for every single item, part of equipment, or food stock on his/her yacht. We should realize that the increasing paranoia, the radicalizing of coastal and island communities will all discredit the simple cruising sailor who wants to explore, live in the marine environment of her/his choice. How can we save our cruising community from being made to look suspicious only because of our capacity to independently sail around and liveaboard.

valhalla360 · 19-11-2015, 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

I can foresee the increase in yacht searches by the different maritime authorities around the globe. I am sure that those who went through serious invasive search of their yacht are not looking forward to another one. Which liveaboard has receipts for every single item, part of equipment, or food stock on his/her yacht. We should realize that the increasing paranoia, the radicalizing of coastal and island communities will all discredit the simple cruising sailor who wants to explore, live in the marine environment of her/his choice. How can we save our cruising community from being made to look suspicious only because of our capacity to independently sail around and liveaboard.

Not likely. Most govts are still OK with profiling and your typical cruiser doesn't look like a terrorist. Cruisers simply aren't a good target for fighting terrorism.

K_V_B · 19-11-2015, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribbit

Er, there were more tourists before Schengen, than after . . . . .

I don't think this is true.

We have recently seen a huge increase in the number of tourists comving from China, India and other places in Asia. These people need a visa to enter. Now what do you think is going to happen is these people now need to apply to several different embassies to get a visum before they can go on their long yearned for Europe trip? Schengen has been a boon for tourists.

It is because of tourists from Asia that Switzerland, a non EU country, joined Schengen. You don't want to be the country that those people leave of their first grand tour.

The Schengen agreement permits ID checks at the border, as long as they are "exceptional" and "temporary". But exceptional and temporary measures can be kept for a long time. So what we will probably have is that for the foreseable future you will have to show your passport as some intra-Schengen borders. Your passport will be checked against a database to see that you're not on some blacklist, and if everything's fine, and you look like your passport picture you will go on your way.

An ID check is not the same as an immigration check. You will still get your Schengen entry stamp at your point of entry, and this will be checked at your point of exit. When you cross from Belgium in to France to day you will be asked to show an ID by a French police officer, but he will not be handing out visa stamps.

I do expect to see more ID checks, even within the country. In many European countries its perfectly legal for a police officer to just stop you and demand an ID, without neading probably cause. But I don't see the Schengen Visa and it's rules going away.

bustermaw · 19-11-2015, 01:43

hi goose bumps
I'm interested in where you're sailing in east Africa. I've only sailed Zanzibar and Pemba but they left me with longing memories.
As far as safety and your concerns about officialdom there's nothing to be done,it will only get worse. But, at the moment no one seems to be pointing the finger at yachtsmen in particular.
I have no experience of the American side of the pond but here in Europe the customs men do enjoy a good yacht search when the mood takes them.It's mostly about drugs though.
I have seen a massively blooming bureaucracy in the past 50 yrs that I've been sailing , and they have become less polite and more autocratic.
Something to put up a brave face about I suppose , like haemorhoids or toothache

valhalla360 · 19-11-2015, 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Why would that happen? It's quite probable that the common Visa policy will remain in place.

Possibly but unless the refugee crissis sorts itself out soon, I would not be at all suprised if countries start breaking away from the Schengen system.

The problem is once you get into any schengen country, you have free access to any other shengen country. The only way to stop that is to go to a seperate country visa and re-implement boarder controls.

While there is a lot of bad things that come with it from a cruisers perspective, this would be great. As the Schengen has grown it has become more and more of a burden to find places outside to wait out the 90 day window till you can return. In areas like the south coast of France, it's a several hundred mile trip to get to a north African port or even further to go around itally to one of the adriatic countries or turkey.

Without the Schengen, from the south of France, it's a day or two of easy coastal hops to reach Spain or Italy.

**GordMay** · 19-11-2015, 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribbit

Er, there were more tourists before Schengen, than after . . .

Indeed.

According to:
The 2013 “Study on the economic impact of short stay visa facilitation on the tourism industry and on the overall economies of EU Member States being part of the Schengen Area”
➥ http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/secto...itation_en.pdf

“... The study has ascertained that the current Schengen visa regime has had a clear impact on the travelling to the Schengen area since its implementation in 2010. While it has certainly contributed to more harmonised visa procedures, it also has an impact in terms of deterring or constricting access for both tourists and business travellers to the Schengen area, as any visa system does. According to our estimations, in 2012, a total of 6.6 million potential travellers from the six target markets were “lost” due to the Schengen area visa regime. Based on average spending figures, this means that the tourism industry in the Schengen area loses out on a potential EUR 5.5 billion in direct contribution to GDP every year, adding up to approximately 113000 jobs in the tourism industry and related sectors. Taking into account a forecasted growth rate in the number of travellers from the six countries, this leads to 34.8 million travellers lost over five years ...”

**boatman61** · 19-11-2015, 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

As we are talking about the effects on the freedom of movement in the aftermath of Paris perhaps some peoples movements should be restricted. Especially the deranged anti ............. who deserve a good ................

I hope I haven't broken any rules but please it is highly offensive to have these haters come onto a cruisers forum and spread their hate. Anti Americans and Anti Jews are all the same. Always have been and always will be. They make me sick.

You may be borderline.. seems to me your goading a vitriolic response with this pointless contribution..
Tunnel Vision is what causes this ****..

Eumelia · 19-11-2015, 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoll

the only real change to where cruisers visit over the last 10 years has been the gulf of aden,and horn of Africa due to piracy,not terrorism.

Islamic piracy, to be precise

K_V_B · 19-11-2015, 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

Indeed.

Again no.
The fact remains that every single country that joined Schengen is receiving more tourists now than before they joined Schengen. I am not claiming that this is because of Schengen, but I am claiming that stating:
"Er, there were more tourists before Schengen, than after . . ."
is false, and the facts bear this out.

Switzerland has seen a huge increase in tourists from India and China, and I have my suspicion that we would not have had this huge increase if Switzerland had not joined Schengen.

Quote:

“... The study has ascertained that the current Schengen visa regime has had a clear impact on the travelling to the Schengen area since its implementation in 2010.

A few things: The Schengen treaty dates from 1985. The document you link to asseses Visa policy, and specifically wether making getting a Schengen Visa easier would lead to more tourism, and concludes that it does. The document does nowhere claim that Schengen led to a reduction of tourism.
This should be obvious to anyone.
Just as it should be obvious to anyone that tourists that don't come to Europe because getting a Schengen Visa is complicated will also not come to Europe if they have to get a separate Visa for every single country they intend to visit.

Yes, Schengen means that persons that previously enjoyed "visa on arrival" or "visa free travel" in Europe now are confronted with a 90 days rule that is not just for each country seperately, but for the most of the EU as a whole.
But for persons from countries that previously had to apply for a visa for each country they wanted to visit (the majority of the worlds' citizens, in other words) the Schengen visa system is an improvement.

**Wotname** · 19-11-2015, 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goosebumps

I can foresee the increase in yacht searches by the different maritime authorities around the globe. I am sure that those who went through serious invasive search of their yacht are not looking forward to another one. Which liveaboard has receipts for every single item, part of equipment, or food stock on his/her yacht. We should realize that the increasing paranoia, the radicalizing of coastal and island communities will all discredit the simple cruising sailor who wants to explore, live in the marine environment of her/his choice. How can we save our cruising community from being made to look suspicious only because of our capacity to independently sail around and liveaboard.

Just why would the maritime authorities want to see receipts for every single item onboard?

It is a genuine question

**atoll** · 19-11-2015, 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eumelia

Islamic piracy, to be precise

on the contrary I have never heard of a religion motivated attack on any vessel in that area,or for that matter in the up and coming piracy hotspot of the mallaca straits,another predominately muslim area.

purely Economic piracy.

using that premise then the piracy in the gulf of guinea,or the drug war in mexico would be Catholic piracy

**atoll** · 19-11-2015, 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wotname

Just why would the maritime authorities want to see receipts for every single item onboard?

It is s a genuine question

east Africa had/has a thriving black market for foreign currency.

currency declaration forms,and having to show recipts for all currency transactions at state appointed banks were a measure to try and slow the rampant inflation of African currencies caused by illegal black market exchange of goods and foreign currency in the area.

Goosebumps · 19-11-2015, 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wotname

Just why would the maritime authorities want to see receipts for every single item onboard?

It is a genuine question

The reason is that ie Mozambique can tax you on food items you import. They also don't want items like TV's, outboards
to be smuggled into country without import tax paid, unless these items are mentioned on your yacht inventory, serial nrs etc as item identification, which
needs to be stamped by your country of origin. Tanzania has similar approach. Atol is also right about the concern about laundring of money. Large amounts of cash are not allowed, there are limits on importing cash. The Mozambican Meticals cannot be exported... Gets complicated. The big problem is that you can never be fully informed what the law enforcement agencies like customs will come up with. It is worth mentioning that Mozambique has ordered French HSI 32 interceptors and Ocean Eagle 43 boats to patrol, to be delivered from next month. The searches at sea will increase abd we pray that the crew won't behave like the infamous traffic police of their country....