California bans the sale of Denatured Alcohol

[zeehag]

glad i left that assinine lefty heavy califascistifornicatia before newsome was elected. was bad enough under moonbeams second coming.
what usedto be a beautiful and fun place to live and work became in short order a nasty dirty and unkempt slum. is sad for those living in the land of heavy corruption.

[Calif.Ted]

I knew that high VOC regs were being phased in, I just wasn't paying much attention to them. I got a bottle of stuff labeled "brush cleaner" that was like gellied paint thinner. My reaction at first was "What is this crap, it ain't thinner", turned out it worked just fine to clean between coats.
For over 60 years I've listened to people rain crap on California and I like to think "At least that's one person won't try to move here."
Calm down, it ain't the end of the world, yet.

[newhaul]

California

[fatherchronica]

I still own a partial 1/2 gallon of denatured alcohol that I am asking $150 for in Manila, California. I do have an alcohol stove on Bill Tilman, our Cape Dory, but I have never used it. Alcohol stoves lost their charm for me 45 years ago on my first boat. We have used butane camping stoves since then on our small boats. On a side note, I use olive oil spray for cooking. And the non aerosol spray is thinned with grain alcohol. So I saved a couple of empty spray bottles and thought I would get a bottle of 200 proof, or close to, White Lightning at Bev-Mo or somewhere like it. The tiny little spray bottles are over $4 and a pretty big bottle of olive oil is about $8 and I thought I could save $11 per year, but mostly I am just curious about too many things. I cannot get 200 proof grain alcohol here in Humboldt at least. I haven't asked beyond the knowledge of liquor store shelf stockers though to be honest. It could be local as far as I know as locally we have 6 times the national average of homeless drug addicts and alcoholics here and we have seen junkies shooting up on the side walk across the street from the Sheriffs office. So they are pretty lax here and to my knowledge try not to inhibit anyones addictions. And I was joking about my denatured stove alcohol. I sometimes put a 1/4 cup in a 45 year old Sparkletts bottle I have and toss matches in until it won't light anymore. It produces a pretty scary explosion the first match, then air rushes in and after that for awhile each match produces a light show, some of the last 15 seconds or so and resemble an Aurora Australus. Eventually the bottle gets to hot for any air to enter and the show is over. Not for the faint of heart or probably all bottles. But mine has lasted 45 years so it is a keeper. So I need that fuel. Having read this thread though I am going to Oregon later this month to visit my son and will try to get bottles of both alcohols just because if they disappear in California they will likely slowly disappear everywhere eventually.

[Montanan]

Nothing new here regarding the high Volatile Organic Compound limitations. The regulations apply to a very broad scope of many, many consumer products and have been phased in for years, not just solvents but adhesives and products made of adhesives and aerosols. This should be of no surprise.

"The California Air Quality Districts have been adopting and implementing air quality regulations for the purpose of limiting the emissions of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) from organic solvent cleaning and from the disposal of solvents and waste solvent materials. Solvents are defined as any liquid containing a volatile organic compound which is used as a dissolver or cleaning agent. The liquids are principally derived from petroleum and include chlorinated hydrocarbons, alcohols and mineral spirits.

The rulings require that by specified dates, an owner or operator will not use organic solvents for cleaning operations that exceed set VOC content limits of 50 g/liter and in some cases 25 g/liter in repair and maintenance cleaning. The South Coast Air Quality Management district was the first to adopt this rule in 1999 and has since changed the limitation to 25 g/liter. The San Joaquin Valley Unified Air Pollution Control District implemented their ruling of 50 g/liter in late 2002. Bay Area Air Quality Management District, Sacramento Metropolitan Air Quality Management District and Ventura County Air Pollution Control District all have issued similar rulings going into effect in mid 2003. The Ventura District is considering starting their ruling at 25 g/liter.

In order to comply with the rules, the manufacturer of any organic cleaning fluid used in these Districts must supply, either on the container, or on a separate product data sheet, the name of the fluid, manufacturer’s name, the VOC content, density and other information as defined in the rule.

To determine the VOC content of the organic cleaning fluid, specified methods are described including those used by the South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) in the adoption of rules 1171 and 1122. The SCAQMD determined the most common and effective cleaners that meeting these requirements are water-based or aqueous cleaners that contain little or no VOCs. They created a new class of solvent called a Clean Air Solvent, which manufacturer’s can apply for certification provided the cleaning liquid meet certain criteria: 1. A VOC concentration of no more than 25 grams of VOC per liter, 2. Containing no compounds classified as Hazardous Air Pollutants, 3. A composite vapor pressure that is no more than 5 mm Hg of VOC at 68 °F and 4. Reactivity is not higher than toluene. The analysis and approvals are performed by the SCAQMD laboratories."

[Tayana42]

I know I shouldn’t comment in this pointless thread and I may only provoke more unfounded trash talk, but I cannot keep quiet any longer. I like living in California, particularly Southern California.

You may have noticed that so many people find this an attractive place to live that it has become crowded. More people want to live and work here than there are houses available so we have a housing crisis. When you have very many people living in close proximity it becomes necessary to have regulations to allow for the common good. Otherwise some people will do whatever they feel is to their advantage and not consider what is good for others.

Historically California was the Wild West with little or no regulation or zoning. As a result, along with the population growth there was a proliferation of industries that were not regulated and they polluted the ground, the water and the air. Petrochemicals, manufacturing, oil refining, factory farming, cattle feedlots and endless freeways grew with no regard to environmental impact. Now, in an effort to reduce the negative impact on this beautiful place there are regulations and laws being imposed that are well intended but sometimes are overreaching or which have unintended impacts. So, rather than bashing the regulators, let’s try to be part of the solution and give feedback to them to make the regulations as targeted as possible.

It does seem that most of the California bashing is politically motivated. The vast majority of California voters have supported a legislative approach to cleaning up the ground, air and water. These are vast problems in a huge state with a huge number of people, cars, trucks, businesses and industries. Bashing doesn’t help.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

I know I shouldn’t comment in this pointless thread and I may only provoke more unfounded trash talk, but I cannot keep quiet any longer. I like living in California, particularly Southern California.

You may have noticed that so many people find this an attractive place to live that it has become crowded. More people want to live and work here than there are houses available so we have a housing crisis. When you have very many people living in close proximity it becomes necessary to have regulations to allow for the common good. Otherwise some people will do whatever they feel is to their advantage and not consider what is good for others.

Historically California was the Wild West with little or no regulation or zoning. As a result, along with the population growth there was a proliferation of industries that were not regulated and they polluted the ground, the water and the air. Petrochemicals, manufacturing, oil refining, factory farming, cattle feedlots and endless freeways grew with no regard to environmental impact. Now, in an effort to reduce the negative impact on this beautiful place there are regulations and laws being imposed that are well intended but sometimes are overreaching or which have unintended impacts. So, rather than bashing the regulators, let’s try to be part of the solution and give feedback to them to make the regulations as targeted as possible.

It does seem that most of the California bashing is politically motivated. The vast majority of California voters have supported a legislative approach to cleaning up the ground, air and water. These are vast problems in a huge state with a huge number of people, cars, trucks, businesses and industries. Bashing doesn’t help.

just an fyi . One of my boats was in till recently moored in the thea foss waterway in Tacoma .
In one of the first declared superfund cleanup site on the list .
Commencement Bay, South Tacoma Channel they are still cleaning up the army corps of engineers mistake from over a century ago. I agree we need to clean up messes but the response needs to be tempered . That is the issue most of California went way overboard . Now they are paying the price.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by newhaul

California

And pooping on the street.

[fatherchronica]

I want to add that when I was young and into young adulthood living in the San Fernando Valley we had, I estimate, at least a 100 days a year you could not se the end of the block from smog. We owned a cabin at Big Bear Lake and later my grandfather lived at Lake Arrowhead and I never saw San Bernardino on Rim of the World highway from the smog layer until I was in my late 20's. I imagine people who skied saw it in the winter, but we avoided it in the winter. Due to farming Bakersfield can most years claim the worst particulate smog in the US though. So we still are proud of that. It may be why Devin Nunes lives in DC.

[fatherchronica]

And those stupid California LibDems still have the 5th largest economy on planet Earth. Go figure.

[Don C L]

Well it’s pretty easy to beat up on California and to hate new regs, I know I will be extremely disappointed if it finally shakes out that alcohol is banned. But as a teacher in the San Fernando valley for the last 30 years I recall days when kids could not go outside to play on “smog days” and I recall days when I was a kid that my lungs hurt when I breathed. Now those days are gone. We heard all sorts of gloom and doom when they took lead out of gas and required catalytic converters etc etc but now, our air is still not great, but it is a whole lot better. In pondering this, and thinking of my tiny stove, I did also remember there are thousands of factories, machine shops and auto body shops etc where barrels of solvents just sit open, or spill and certainly those sources are far worse. But to solve a problem, something has to be done as a start. Hopefully some reasonable compromises will be worked out. In any case, it can be helpful to venture to see both sides first.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by fatherchronica

And those stupid California LibDems still have the 5th largest economy on planet Earth. Go figure.

just a geographic "accident", if they stopped messing around being "special" they could be #3 probably

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by newhaul

actually its the same jerry Brown . Not father and son . ...

And you said I didn't understand California politics

Edmund G. "Jerry" Brown was governor in the '70s and early '80s after Reagan and again from 2011 to 2019. But his father, Edmund G. "Pat" Brown was governor before Reagan from '59 to '67. They are indeed father and son and between them have been governor of California for 24 years.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

And you said I didn't understand California politics

Edmund G. "Jerry" Brown was governor in the '70s and early 80s after Reagan and again from 2011 to 2019. But his father, Edmund G. "Pat" Brown was governor before Reagan from '59 to '67. They are indeed father and son and between them have been governor of California for 24 years.

ok I stand corrected I was just refering to moonbeam brown . Totally forgot about his dad in the 60's

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by fatherchronica

I want to add that when I was young and into young adulthood living in the San Fernando Valley we had, I estimate, at least a 100 days a year you could not se the end of the block from smog. We owned a cabin at Big Bear Lake and later my grandfather lived at Lake Arrowhead and I never saw San Bernardino on Rim of the World highway from the smog layer until I was in my late 20's. I imagine people who skied saw it in the winter, but we avoided it in the winter. Due to farming Bakersfield can most years claim the worst particulate smog in the US though. So we still are proud of that. It may be why Devin Nunes lives in DC.

And that was caused by poorly running cars of the day. Problem solved. Note those bad old days are gone.

The solvent issue now is orders of magnitude smaller. Reading the CARB site they are including such things as alcohol in hand sanitizer and isopropyl used everywhere for germ control, think hospitals. How much secondary infection do they risk? The alcohol use we are discussing is not as a solvent. It is a cooking fuel an is entirely consumed. It is used because it is more safe in confined space than alternatives. An alcohol fire ban be snuffed with water. CARB is ultra fixated on solvents and does not seem to adequately acknowledge any other use. Oddly, their site ranks acetone as exempt for some reason. The list of controlled or proposed controlled is illogical.