Boat Yards Hostile to Do-It-Yourselfers

[Bill Seal]

Trouble is, in the LA area they pretty much have you screwed
Last Small Boatyard in Port of LA to Be Evicted – The Log
ON THE WATER: Cabrillo Boat Shop Takes Sail Down | On The Water | gazettes.com

[smac999]

Have them put the 300 on a separate bill. Because you want to know what it's for. When the boat is out. Call visa to cancel it. Because no service was given or rendered for that money.

[Rhwins]

Most contracts of this type include a provision to arbitrate or mediate disputes which means you can't go to small claims court. American Arbitration Association is going to cost most of the $300 if not more, to do that route. Check the fine print on your contract, if there is one.

[cyan]

Thanks, Baba Buoy, for posting your story. While it’s true we don’t have many choices in SoCal, it would be worth much more than $300 to Windward if we read here that you were refunded the money, if you get what I’m saying.

Regarding the credit card, it doesn’t matter if you signed the receipt- you can still dispute the charges. However, CC companies vary on how much they have your back. In my experience, Amex is #1 IMO- a pit bull for their customers. (Once threatening my employer, a Fortune 500 company, because they were late on travel reimbursement- I got a check the same day) A decent one is Capital One. A wimpy one, not at all on your team, is Chase.

These are only my experiences, so the sample size may be small here. The point is that the card companies are all different, and it’s good to know who’s got your back when you are charged for services not rendered with a verbal contradiction, no matter the fine print.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by chowdan

I also agree on this. I would definitely pay it, walk away and then go to the CC company.

Also after receiving my boat and getting out of under his thumb, I'd tell him that he's going to lose a lot of business over this due to reviewing sites then let the cc company handle the dispute

Again if you sign the credit card receipt when accepting the work as complete after clearly being notified of the charge...the CC company will handle it...by telling you to pay what you agreed to.

Where disputing works is if they didn't let you know and you found out later they tacked something extra on that you didn't agree to.

[john61ct]

Depends on the bank.

If the only other choice is to pay anyway doesn't hurt to try.

If you're set on burning bridges, which I personally would not do for $300

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

Is there a way to pay them the $300 and have them do something in exchange so everyone is a little bit happier? Maybe there are other things that need doing? Might be tough to fight them as they have control of boat.

[Amapola]

We had the same issue with our boatyard in Florida. The owner/manager said we were cheating his workers and that he did not have insurance to cover do-it-yourself work.

[leftbrainstuff]

We always check with the yard and previous customers before we commit to hauling.

We also discuss our schedule of work (our own and the yards) before we arrive / haul.

We have daily meetings with the yard manager and we make it as easy as possible for the yard to do their assigned work. We adjust our work around them.

We always get the yard to do the bottom job. They will always be more efficient than me anyway.

I've lost count of the number of yard managers and workers who've commented that they wished more customers were as organised as us and as easy to work with.

[Dave9111]

Originally Posted by Baba Buoy

The Windward Yacht Boatyard in Marina Del Rey is bottom painting my sailboat. I ask Chris, the boss, if I could do work concurrent with painting. He said yes but no outside contractors. While boat was drying after pressure wash, I changed the prop, changed a speed transducer and patching a small bit of damage on bottom of rudder. Chris came out in afternoon and said he was going to charge me one day extra fee (over $300), because his workers did not do the work. He claimed I didn't tell him about the small fiberglass work. The damage was discovered only that day. I had paid "rent" for the painting I don't think I should be double charged. My work did not impact their paint schedule or resulted in more time on the hard or used outside contractors. Small claims court?

1. Do you plan on staying at that marina?
2. Do you know who owns the marina?
3. Is the marina aware that they are being discussed on this list?


I have found that if you have a problem with marina service, you need to contact the owner or president of the marina and tell them that you feel that you are being unjustly charged for no reason. My experience is that they will usually back down when they see that you are serious. They have a lot to lose. A lot more than $300.
You should do this in writing.




Usually, unless they can substantiate that they did actual work, they will not be able to charge you.



You might want to copy the link to this forum and tell them that they are getting bad press because of their actions.



If it goes no where, and you want to make a point, file a case in small claims and itemize the damages - the bill, any time you lost, any inconvenience, cost of filing the court case, etc. The last time I filed a small claims case I think it took 30 minutes at the courthouse and $35 or so. Unless you violated a written agreement, you will likely win. If you lose, you only lose $35 and your time. They can't be awarded legal fees in a small claims court case. (At least not here) Call the courthouse and ask them how you file a small claims case. They will usually help you directly. Just bring all the contact info for the marina and your costs and file the case on the spot.



The marina won't do anything legal for $3-500. You will get a call and they will settle, but even that will cost them legal time at $200+ per hour. In the end they will lose money. But don't expect your relationship to be rosy afterwards. Be prepared to leave the marina if you file a legal case.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

1. Do you plan on staying at that marina?
2. Do you know who owns the marina?
3. Is the marina aware that they are being discussed on this list?

Just to clarify- in California, boatyards and marinas are (by law) separate business entities. So the yard where the work was done is not the place where the boat lives.

[Dave9111]

That could be a big advantage.



Also, if the boat shop is renting space from the marina, that could be another advantage. No marina owner wants the shop on their premises screwing over their customers. You need to find out who owns who and who is renting space from who, etc.



I'd spend $300 to get my $300 back if they were in the wrong. But that's me.



Bite me and I bite back.

[RELENTLESS 1]

Hmmm. I have dealt with Chris and this Boatyard before - he knows you only have 2 choices - and he isn't really nice about it - you are just another boat owner and he is going to get paid his salary - plus bonus for stuff like this and there is nothing you can do about it. Bite the bullet, be nice about it, and get it in writing next time. . They ave a duopoly and yes it would be nice if they would be a bit nicer while bending you over. I have an approved subcontractor who does work on my 28' race boat - I would do my best to not use their yard guys. They really don't give a rip about you.

[robertmfranklin]

A different point of view:

I consider my self very lucky to belong to a wonderful yacht club in the middle of the City of Boston right on Boston Harbor, Savin Hill Yacht Club. The club is well run by volunteer members and has enough land to store members boats. Members do the hauling with a Brownell rig, under the supervision of the back beach chairman who is very skilled. It is a big responsibility and he sees to it that the process is safe for everyone including the boat. I never hear of an accident or damage.

I am not saying all this to make anyone jealous. I started by acknowledging my good fortune.

At the club we can do our own work, top, bottom; inside and out.

After, 60 years boat ownership (more actually) the one thing that would make me very nervous would be to have someone else working on my boat, not subject to my supervision, and not willing to work along with me.

I always found it remarkable that you can be 20 miles off shore have a serious problem and only then find out that someone, neglected to tighten all the screws in a repair. They might have been called to lunch. They might have with the best of intentions wanted something to settle first before final torquing and then became distracted. It has happened to me.

The difference is I can comfortably blame my self while I am sinking and accept my fate. If the cause were due to someone else's negligence I would go down screaming.

Plain and simple, if I could not work on my boat, I wouldn't have it. A great deal of ownership pleasure for me is the work itself. I am sure many on this forum feel exactly as I do.

I understand the financial pressure on marinas and boatyards. If I had to be in one that restricted owners from doing their own work, I would be willing to pay a fee to have that restriction waived. This serves the interests of both sides.

[SMBSF]

I have used Windward for the last 19 years as my yard and found them to be professional and honest. Chris has always bent over backward to work with me to get the job done professionally and efficiently. I believe a pleasant conversation with Chris will be able to resolve this issue and keep your relationship with the yard for the future. My impression of the competing yard in Marina del Rey is nowhere near the quality of Windward, and if you burn your bridges you will have no one else to turn to in the future!!