Boat Yards Hostile to Do-It-Yourselfers

[Joe Okros]

The downside of unmitigated rampant capitalism. Everything gets a price sticker on it. Its when your dentist, doctor, plumber and everyone else in-between needs to make a living out of you.
Suddenly you have holes in your teeth, gallbladders that need removing and "frozen" seacocks........

Unfortunately, they forgot to put a price sticker on morality. Doesn't sound like the kind of place I would like to live, but apparently its the "Land of the Free". Just as long as you can afford to pay for it.

[JanetGroene]

We once took a yard to small claims court because their paint job was so bad we asked for a re-do, for which they charged us. We lost. The yard, the court and the judge were local. We were transients.



On the plus side, filing for small claims in Florida cost very little but the yard, as a corporation, had to hire an attorney. It cost them bigtime. See what applies in your state, small claims court-wise. If law requires them to have an attorney, and you don't need one for small claims, you may get them to settle. On the subject of DIY, yards are up against law suits, OSHA, workman's comp and unions. Many no longer risk having boat owners present, let alone working on their boats.

[Descant]

My yard keeps a credit card on file. They email a copy of the competed RO, and ask if it is OK to process. I can always contest with the CC company if I later find the work wasn't up to par. I did have a complaint a few years ago which I brought to the Operations VP at HQ. "I'll look into it." A few months later a $750 credit showed up on my account. Patience paid off and everybody was happy.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by JanetGroene

On the plus side, filing for small claims in Florida cost very little but the yard, as a corporation, had to hire an attorney. It cost them bigtime. See what applies in your state, small claims court-wise. If law requires them to have an attorney, and you don't need one for small claims, you may get them to settle.

Attorneys are not allowed to represent the involved parties in small claims court in California.

[hellosailor]

Maybe California is good at creative thinking? I'd find it hard for a court to honor a mechanic's lien, when the mechanic has nothing in writing authorizing any work, and can only say "I didn't tell him he could do that to his own boat, so he owes me money".

Followed by abuse of process and other counterclaims right back at the "mechanic", which could cost him plenty.

On the other hand, in most small claims processes, the business has to HIRE AN ATTORNEY to represent them, so you're looking at typically a couple of hours in legal fees (two to six? at $125 an hour?) where the individual is allowed to represent themselves, and the court usually is conducted during evening hours, so no one has to miss work.

Do what you have to, to get the boat out of the yard. Then go back and file the small claims against them, and call it extortion (which the DA will prosecute for free) if that fits the bill. Give the man a chance to dismiss the charges up front, since they never said there would be any. But use the carrot once ("You know, it isn't just me, we were discussing this in a major online boating forum and they agree with me") but then, by all means, get the stick.

If you let them get away with this without squawking, it just encourages them to do it to the next guy. And the last guy who allowed himself to be extorted this way--is partly responsible for you getting stuck now.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Joe Okros

Unfortunately, they forgot to put a price sticker on morality. Doesn't sound like the kind of place I would like to live, but apparently its the "Land of the Free". Just as long as you can afford to pay for it.

there are marinas I know of that don't allow sailboats. something about the price of getting rid of abandoned boats. guess we can blame it all on fiberglass that never rots. also some no longer charge by the foot .. it is now by slip size. and they may only have a 40 foot slips available .. tough on folks with 35 footers.

[bobatkins]

I have used Windward several times over the years for bottom paint and other work on my boat. I have never been hit with any surcharge like you were. That said however, the last time I had my 41ft boat hauled there on Jan 2018 for an insurance survey I was charged $575 for a haul and hang! Just 30 minutes on the sling and back in the water! While it was hanging, and the surveyor was doing his thing, my interaction with Chris was less than satisfying.

While the boat was in the sling, I was reviewing the condition of my keel that they had previously completely striped, primed and painted the last time it was out (18 months earlier). It was pock marked with many circular areas about the size of a quarter to half dollar where the bottom paint had come off leaving the primer showing. I asked him about it and his response was - 'What do you want me to do about it?' That was a pretty gruff answer and then he added - 'you never paid us for refinishing your keel!!' Really?!?! It so happened that I had my yard file with me at that moment so I pulled their yard bill out and showed it to him - pointing out the specific line items that referred to stripping, priming and repainting the keel and he said - 'So what do you want me to do about it?' - again! I wasn't demanding anything from him at that moment, just asking about the condition.

Frankly I was disgusted at his attitude - he blew me off, claimed that I hadn't paid for work that I had clearly paid for and then blew me off again - and this was last January, 2018 when the yard was empty!

It seems that they are just being hard a$$ about everything now - because they can. My conversation with Chris really put me off given that I have probably spent almost $20K with them over the last 13 years - the vast majority of work they did themselves!

I think I'll be using the Boatyard for any future haul out/bottom work because I don't think they deserve any more $$$ from me. That said - I'm not keen on the Boatyard either and that is why I started using Windward 13 years ago. Basically we are all collectively screwed by a duopoly of boat yards that realize that they can do whatever they want and we have to live and pay for it!

I strongly suggest that you (and anyone else who wants to say anything) come to the Special Night Meeting of Department of Beaches and Harbors on 4/4/2019 at 6:00pm at the Burton Chase Park community center building and express your concerns about the duopoly of the boat yards and overall lack of boater services in Marina del Rey. I'll be happy to chime in with you.

[Fore and Aft]

I have had that issue being charged for a bigger slip than I needed (12 meter) gonesail. I did'nt mind but what got my goat was when a smaller slip was available it went to a person who had just showed up at the marina! Goodness knows what the marina was thinking as I was always asking for a 10 meter berth.
Cheers

[peter loveridge]

I have a completely different experience. A few years ago went into a high-profile yard in Maine ( Brewers, south Freeport} stern tube had split, big leak which we just managed to keep up with. They hauled us up. Really busy, they said, could you do some of this yourself. I think I could, but I need to find a hotel to stay at. No need for that, cap, we'll park you in a nice spot looking up the river, and here's the keys to the yard truck and the showers and washers.Couldn't undo the coupling , had to cut the shaft. Here's our reciprocating saw, they said( I thought, thus is America , the lawyers will have a fit). Did the thing, got it all out, they sent to their subcontractor to get new shaft and coupling and cutless bearing, my old one having been destroyed Put it all back together, they offered me a job at the yard. They heard about my day job and couldn't believe it. 2 weeks later, back in the water, the only bill I got was for the subcontractors work. America really is great if you in the right place

[Don C L]

Sometimes a haul-out is a nice excuse for a little trip... if you have the time and you know a good yard. Years ago I went up to Port San Luis, Avila Beach, because I needed to be out for a couple weeks. I am not sure how it is now, but that was a really cheap haul-out at the time! I feel lucky I am about 100 yds away from a non-hostile yard now.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dave9111

The marina won't do anything legal for $3-500. You will get a call and they will settle, but even that will cost them legal time at $200+ per hour. In the end they will lose money. But don't expect your relationship to be rosy afterwards. Be prepared to leave the marina if you file a legal case.

1) Very easy to put a lien on the boat and refuse to launch until you pay. (not sure if small claims court covers maritime law)
2) Even if you get the boat out, they can report it to the credit agencies that you are delinquent.

All without bringing a lawyer in or costing them much time...and as you say, your relationship is toast.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Joe Okros

The downside of unmitigated rampant capitalism. Everything gets a price sticker on it. Its when your dentist, doctor, plumber and everyone else in-between needs to make a living out of you.
Suddenly you have holes in your teeth, gallbladders that need removing and "frozen" seacocks........

Unfortunately, they forgot to put a price sticker on morality. Doesn't sound like the kind of place I would like to live, but apparently its the "Land of the Free". Just as long as you can afford to pay for it.

Of course the alternative is unmitigated rampant socialism...where they just don't care about doing the work because the govt gives them the same paycheck no matter what thy do.

Reality in most cases is capitalism has built in limits as competition will step in and take business from bad business owners. The exception being monopolies which to a degree may be the case here.

[Singularity]

If someone asks for advice about a faltering voltage regulator on their alternator I don't think that it's useful to mention that the alternative is a nuclear reactor suffering from a meltdown.

Sometimes you still believe in alternators and just need a more effective voltage regulator.

Bringing up nuclear meltdowns as the response to every electrical question suggests a lack of awareness about voltage regulators and/or household electricals in general.

[Dave9111]

I agree with Bob. If I couldn't do my own work, I wouldnt have my boat.

Regarding the forklift cost in the previous message regarding $200 to lift the engine in and out. I think that is reasonable, and perhaps a little cheap.

I run a small business and have forklifts.

Costs

1. Operator - salary and benefits
2. Overhead
3. Insurance (what if he dropped the engine / on your boat?)
4. Equipment costs
5. Fuel costs

By the time you talked to them about using the forklift, they got the forklift, received your money, attached the boom to the forklift, inspected the engine attachments, looked over the lift situation. Asked you questions about the lift..... id be shocked if they didn't burn up an hour each time.

You got off cheap.

If you wanted to be really cheap you likely could have used your mast and boom to lift the engine, but then you would be risking even more.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Singularity

If someone asks for advice about a faltering voltage regulator on their alternator I don't think that it's useful to mention that the alternative is a nuclear reactor suffering from a meltdown.

Sometimes you still believe in alternators and just need a more effective voltage regulator.

Bringing up nuclear meltdowns as the response to every electrical question suggests a lack of awareness about voltage regulators and/or household electricals in general.

beautiful

"but Venezuela!" is a pretty sad response to

we could do better