The Cost of Sailing / Cruising

[bobfnbw]

Lostmt, sorry to hear that.
Yes I understand you point, believe me. We left a nice log home in North Bend Washington over 9 years ago to live that dream, only to find out the hard way that life did not want us to go in that direction just yet. So now I have resigned myself to the fact that it will happen or it won't, but I plan anyway.
Bought the boat a year ago, with the intention to take the next 10 years to get it ready.
Have a few shorter cruises with the kids in the mean time in the Gulf. Maybe in a few years we can take the summer off. But wife teaches at a college, and I have a full time job so that is difficult. One kid in 9th grade HS, the other in 2nd.... we are kind of busy..

Our boat is located at the Municipal marina. Currently it is in the yard slip across from the yacht club, as the engine and trans is being rebuilt. Should be in by next week, Then we well go back to our slip in H30, that is the last pier towards the Lex, 5 slips over from Ocean Drive.

I know of many who have had their plans and dreams dashed like yours. I would like to think that no matter what, I would go thru with them regardless, but that is probaly just testosterone speaking... and the older I get the less of that I have as well...

Once the engine and tanks are back in, you would be welcome to come by on a trip to corpus. But I might put you to work... I got a lot of work to do...

Take care,
Bob

[capcook]

Well, thought I would share the budget I am working on for my crusing life to see if anyone thinks any of the line items are short... some assumptions:

> A 40-45 ft CAT, think Lagoon 420 couple of years old and paid for

> Desire to stay at a Dock often as we enjoy walking around new places and with 2 kids going to/from land in a dingy every time just doesn't seem reaslistic, we would stay on the hook occasionally and be in trasnsit some days, so don't need 24x7 365 but probably 80%

> Home schooling 2 Ks with some well recognized approved courses

> At this point we think we will need to keep our house or get a Condo... don't want to part with all the hard earned stuff and will likely want a base, but assume it will be paid for.

So, given that I think I can do it if I keep working to about 103 and then take an early death :-).... still figuring... wish it came in at half this amount...

CostMonthlyAnnualTaxes & Ins. On House/Condo 500.00 6,000.00 Condo/House Fees/Maint/Utilities 750.00 9,000.00 PPT Taxes On Boat - - Boat Insurance, Liability Only 100.00 1,200.00 Boat Maintenance 1,000.00 12,000.00 Marina Fees, inclds WiFi, Water, Pwr 1,600.00 19,200.00 Total Housing/Boat Expenses 3,950.00 47,400.00 Communications (Cell Phones) 200.00 2,400.00 Fuel for Boat / Rentals 500.00 6,000.00 Gifts Family / Friends 200.00 2,400.00 Kids Classes/School Expense (2) 600.00 7,200.00 Car Insurance - For Renting/retaining 55.00 660.00 Health Insurance Co-Pay 1,000.00 12,000.00 Food & Other Living Expenses for 4 1,500.00 18,000.00 Entertainment / Land Excursions 500.00 6,000.00 Total "Living" Expenses 4,555.00 54,660.00 Total Monthly Cash Required 8,505.00 102,060.00

[osirissail]

Capcook - suggest putting "carriage returns" at the end of each line item - it is too difficult to see what you are listing as expenses . . . .
- - Landside costs need not be included as they are only specific to your land side life. Boating expenses include: boat/repairs/maintenance/home school/food/water/booze/offshore health insurance/boat insurance/touring and trinkets/dining ashore/communications and the big one marina costs for a catamaran. - Try splitting it out that way on separate lines . . .

[capcook]

Sorry you all... this was a very nice looking spreadsheet when I pasted it in... let me try again.. hopefully it will stay straight...

Cost Monthly Annual
Taxes & Ins. On House/Condo 500.00 6,000.00
Condo/House Fees/Maint/Utilities 750.00 9,000.00
PPT Taxes On Boat - -
Boat Insurance, Liability Only 100.00 1,200.00
Boat Maintenance 1,000.00 12,000.00
Marina Fees, inclds WiFi, Water, Pwr 1,600.00 19,200.00

Total Housing/Boat Expenses 3,950.00 47,400.00

Communications (Cell Phones) 200.00 2,400.00
Fuel for Boat / Rentals 500.00 6,000.00
Gifts Family / Friends 200.00 2,400.00
Kids Classes/School Expense (2) 600.00 7,200.00
Car Insurance - For Renting/retaining 55.00 660.00
Health Insurance Co-Pay 1,000.00 12,000.00
Food & Other Living Expenses for 4 1,500.00 18,000.00
Entertainment / Land Excursions 500.00 6,000.00

Total "Living" Expenses 4,555.00 54,660.00

Total Monthly Cash Required 8,505.00 102,060.00

cheers

[capcook]

Originally Posted by osirissail

- - Landside costs need not be included as they are only specific to your land side life. . .

Hi Osirissail...

I would agree if your plan is to not have a land side base.. in other words sell up and sail, which is a perfectly valid plan... I just don't think we are ready for that big of a step... a storage unit I guess might work, but we think we want to keep a base on land so that cost has to be in the mix if it is to be... so our costs will be higher than someone who has no other home but the boat...


Cheers

[brucejarchow]

I live in colorado, work full time still (68 years young) and took my boat, a C&C34 down the intercoastal waterway last year. i arrived in ft myers, fl in january, after 3-2 week trips from annapolis. my old yanmar which had been "rebuilt" finally gave up and i finally bought a new yanmar in july and hope the boatyard in st james city has the installation complete this week,because my next leg of the journey starts the end of the week. the point is that any one owning a boat had better expect to incur some major replacement costs if they have an old engine and older boat (engine replacement, standing rigging, etc). in my case those costs will be about $8000.00. that may be a bit more than what would be considered to be sailing on a shoestring, although some people sail without an engine, a tricky thing to do when going across from ft myers and across the okeechobee to stuart, with several bridges and locks. also remember that as one gets older there are other major expenses that may have to be paid, such as medical expenses and medical insurance, not to mention college expenses for children. I suspect that for many sailors what i have experienced, is the norm. we work, paying the expenses of everyday life and hopefully have enough left over to do a bit of sailing.

[osirissail]

Capcook - what I meant was that any budget item relating to retaining a land-based house, whatever, is not relevant to a budget for cruising. Whether you loan out your land home, rent it, or shut it down and seal it up - those costs are outside the costs of the boat and cruising with the family. Only you know what they would be for your home location.
- - Assuming that you are going to take the boat and family out of USA waters to foreign waters then your cruising budge would encompass:
Boat upkeep and repairs which if the boat is a cat and 2 years old should be minimal although realistically you would "bank" an amount per month for bottom jobs and damage. Realistically, a "reserve fund" for the boat should have at least $10K in it. That amount can be either in a savings account, investments or even credit cards potential. As the boat gets to 5 years or more that "reserve fund" should double. You might never need to use it but it will be should there if you have to use it. With Liability only insurance any damage to the boat or significant parts lost or stolen will have to be replaced by "out of pocket cash" from the reserve fund.
- - For kid schooling you need only get quotes from the various accredited correspondence/home school companies in that business. My kids are 45 y.o. so I have no idea what is being charged these days. Extraneous costs of the kids beyond feeding them, is minimal on a cruising boat as Nature provides the playground and a lot of the schoolyard. Clothing is lots of bathing suits and flip-flops plus a few pairs of shorts and lots of tee-shirts. Good boat shoes/sneakers are important to keep damage to feet to a minimum.
- - Medical insurance might be a biggie, as USA Medical rarely covers offshore for more than a month or so. Unless you are expecting to be away from the USA for many years you can take care of most medical costs from cash as the local medical prices are a fraction of what the USA system costs. Having the family plan from DAN for air med-evac will cover major problems that cannot be handled locally. And young parents and kids on cruising boats are just healthier and more careful than land-based kids.
- - Communications costs are minimal beyond gets a "quad-band GSM" (unlocked) phone off the internet and buying a local SIM card for wherever you will be staying for a longer time ($90/phone & $10/SIM card). The boat should come with SSB HF radio and TNC for email in remote locations not to mention weather and basic communications with other boaters. Satellite phones are great for out of the way communications for both data and emergency calls to loved ones and others back on land. Lapbook computers and waterproof external WiFi amplified antennas will make available the internet in virtually all the places you will stop. And that opens you up to use SKYPE for hours and hours of talking to people back "home," etc. for pennies. Doing it that way you will be stretching it to spend $25/month (not including getting the equipment).
- - Car expenses - If you keep your car at your land home then you will have to maintain coverage there which will extend rental coverage in USA territory islands. In other islands it is best to bite the bullet and get the insurance offered with the rental which usually is about US$10/day. Most of the time we walk everywhere or take the local "buses" to get to markets and other activities.
- - Touring with a family of 4 is more expensive as locals supporting cruisers with organized tours usually charge from $10 to $20/person for all day tour.
- - Food costs should be equal to your costs at home to feed the brood. Some places will be a fractional cost and others will be maybe twice the cost but it will average out over the long run. Most of the food in the Caribbean Islands is imported into each island especially foods that Norte Americanos are used to eating. Eating local foods is extremely inexpensive but monotonous. Locals can get fat on eating $3/day of local food. But our tastes are different and our kinds of foods have to be imported.
- - I would hazard that your fuel burn should equal the fuel your 2+ cars used at home. If you are cruising north-south that is a lot cheaper than going east. My fuel for a whole year runs about US$2500 and I never run without an engine as I am a large motor sailor. Folks who have real sailing boats probably spend half or less than that per year. Dinghy fuel and genset fuel will probably equal your sailing fuel.
- - Now the "killer" - marinas. Unless you are seriously well-heeled financially, marina usage is few and far between. For a Catamaran figure $1/foot/day at the average cheap marina and up to $4/ft/day at the ritsy marinas. (45/ft cat = $45/day plus electric and water could add up the minimum to $60+/day all the way to $200+/day). For a month in an averge island marina think about US$1K to $1.5K. That is why we rarely use marinas. You can buy a new Honda EU2000i every month with fuel for less than staying in an average Caribbean marina with a catamaran. And forget the price for a minute, you and the kids cannot swim around boat when you are in a marina. One of the real joys of cruising is being able to do flips and cannonballs off your deck with the kids into clear beautiful waters.
- - A reasonably new boat with good equipment and spare parts cuts operating costs dramatically baring any catastrophes or wreckage. Assuming you are using the $50K number as boat and cruising costs you would be in the seriously "luxury" category. Consider 4 people on a 42' cat about $25K-30K would put you in the very comfortable category of the average cruising family.

[S/V Alchemy]

^ ^ ^

Good summation. It agrees with most of my assumptions. I agree that marinas must be seen as a "treat": Don't say "no marinas ever", but base your cruising on anchoring out and self-sufficiency. We have invested in solar panels, wind and genset, and will have oversized ground tackle and (probably) a small watermaker. We also carry two tenders, plus the liferaft. This is a LOT of fairly expensive gear, but amazingly it is far less than going from marina to marina, esp. with a 40-footer.

Anchoring means freedom, and it gets you more exercise!

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

marinas must be seen as a "treat": Don't say "no marinas ever", ....

Anchoring means freedom, and it gets you more exercise!

They are good to load water from hoses instead of lugging gerries; for big supermarket trips, and a nice looooooooong shower

If all those things can be knocked over in the one marina overnight then the cost can be reasonable.

When we go to a fuel dock we have a rule: No water no fuel! And we fill with water first! LOL

So we factor into the budget 1 marina overnight per fortnight or per month. Just we haven't seen too many marinas since the caribbean! LOL

Mark

[capcook]

Thanks Orsirsial for the thought full response..


Alchemy,

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Anchoring means freedom, and it gets you more exercise!

This is actually what I worry about, would you not tire of getting in the dink and having to worry about it getting taken just to take a walk in the evening? I would think you would get less exercise on the hook vs being at the dock where you could just take off on a moment's notice... I think we will likely be at a dock (perhaps not a marina) a good bit of the time when near towns or settlements... but I guess time will tell..

Cheers

[John A]

Having a dinghy to move from boat to shore involves certain security precautions to insure the dinghy is where you left it. The dinghy must be locked to the dinghy dock or something solid. Leave your dinghy at the bridge down the small creek in Lake Worth to go shopping and it may not be there when you return. Figure out some way to lock the motor to the dinghy also. You should make this practice of locking a habit.
When at your boat at anchorage, lift the dinghy out of the water and lock it to your boat during the night. Clever thieves can swim up to your floating dinghy, tie a long line to your boat, hold the chain used to lock your dinghy underwater and cut it with boltcutters. Then swim out to the long line and disappeare into the night with your dinghy in tow.
Another cute trick that has sprung up by the locals in the islands is to find a boat that is not locked and untie the painter from the dock and then demand payment to retrieve you dinghy.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by capcook

This is actually what I worry about, would you not tire of getting in the dink and having to worry about it getting taken just to take a walk

Originally Posted by John A

Having a dinghy to move from boat to shore involves certain security precautions to insure the dinghy is where you left it. .

I feel the dink (and all the money carried in packets) are expendable items.

It doesn't mean I throw them away, but certainly don't wreck your cruise being pedantic about the inflatable!

Live your life to the fullest and if, once per 5 years, costs you $2k well so be it. The worry will put you in an early grave

[fishwife]

Re: the dinghy.

Although I have a decent chain and a good padlock, the cost of replacing the dinghy, if it is stolen, is low compared to even a month in a marina. As for the hassle involved using the dinghy instead of being alongside, when you do it frequently, launch and retrieval can be done very quickly (less than 5 minutes).

Often when you really want a marina berth, they just don't exist, or at least they don't in the less frequented places. Sitting on the hook in a bay with serious Pacific swells rolling in, I've been boat-bound for a few days. Taking the dinghy ashore then is just to hairy a proposition.

Paige

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by capcook

Thanks Orsirsial for the thought full response..


Alchemy,



This is actually what I worry about, would you not tire of getting in the dink and having to worry about it getting taken just to take a walk in the evening? I would think you would get less exercise on the hook vs being at the dock where you could just take off on a moment's notice... I think we will likely be at a dock (perhaps not a marina) a good bit of the time when near towns or settlements... but I guess time will tell..

Cheers

Well, with all the swimming and hand-cleaning the hull and manual windlass operation and manual bilge pumping and manual water foot pumping...I'm not too worried. Working on the general principle that everything on a cruiser must be good for two jobs, installing "manual everything, with electric backup" means you save precious amps at anchor, while getting exercise and having a mechanical option to the electrical device (like pumps, windlass motors, etc.)

I'm no Luddite, but when you shape your cruising life around the idea of simplicity and conservation of electricity, you want muscle power for the simple stuff.

If you row to shore, odds are that your tender will be the least attractive to steal. If you bring a Honda 2 HP, you can stow it behind the counter of a reputable shopkeeper for a couple of bucks. If you are really out in the Pacific in a lagoon, jump off and swim with a waterproof bag, island-style.

[osirissail]

- - Besides all the pluses of beauty, wind, sun, and family enjoyment of anchoring versus - long term - marina usage - there is the joy of teaching your children to row, operate the outboard motor, learn to dock and keep watch, etc., etc., that is involved in using the "dinghy". The become "junior captains" and thrive on "real life" lessons of responsibility and awareness. Also the ride in the dinghy is never dull to me as I am sneaking up to shorelines and little features of the island that I cannot take the "big" boat into. After all, the whole purpose of cruising is to experience, learn new things about places, and have fun. Otherwise take an airplane and stay in a resort hotel.
- - Personally I use marinas when I need electrical power for repairs or projects and high water usage times, otherwise I anchor out.