TAX - Buying a sailboat in California (San Diego) out of state

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Paul L

OK, I'll keep the use-tax for boats idea a secret, so those pesky Sacremento types won't have a clue about what they are missing

Or since you seem to perceive that there is an inherent inequity in the rule of taxation, you could just make a payment to the State of California as a payment in lieu of taxation so as to even the dealings.

Payment in lieu of taxation is not an uncommon occurrence when there is an apparent inequity realized by a party. By way of example, The Nature Conservancy commonly makes payments in lieu of property taxation on their massive landholdings so as to keep the govenments' revenue in the jurisdiction similar to what it may have been if the non-profit organization had not purchased the privately held properties. The Nature Conservancy tries to be a welcomed member of the communities they engage with.

Profit and non-profit purpose being yet another distinction as to taxation.

Going totally
We face such circumstances here on the Flathead Reservation as to tribal purchases of fee simple land or businesses [for example the acquisition of a major hydroelectric power plant and dam] which then no longer become subject to state, county or local taxation; it is up to the dependent sovereign Flathead Nation to decide if they desire to pay a payment in lieu of taxation so as to provide for state, county of local government services [schools, police, courts, roads, etc.], or to instead utilize their money for there defined purposes. But then this land was an "opened" reservation, wherein the Hellgate Treaty land of 1855 was allowed to be sold by the Federal government to non-tribal persons, thus when they buy the fee simple lands, they are in essence reacquiring the land that was originally reserved for their nation. Issue of indigenous rights and the clashing with migrants from primarily European and other continents ancestry. One gets a much clear perspective as to who and what a "legal" American is, when one has had the pleasure and privilege of living here in the remaining lands of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai, and in The Last Best Place, Montaña. [Previously, from California, Nebraska, England, and Kansas]. IMHO, a clarity of perspective that The Donald and many of his supporters do not have, particularly as to the migration of indigenous fellow Americans transiting from the states of El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala to the 50 United States of AMERICA. When I look back at my ancestry, I have to ask what made my non-English speaking Irish, French and German ancestors in the mid-1800s "legal" immigrants. Answer: There were no migration laws, they just came, fleeing war, famine and poverty and became citizens upon arrival, no documentation required to enter [e.g, passport or visa], and no documentation issued as to thence being a "citizen" of their new land. There being No "Documented" Americans and thus NO "Undocumented" Americans. When traveling abroad [like to California ], if asked as to if I am a foreigner or where I am from, I state I am a Montañan which narrows it down to about 1 million from the 1+ billion Americans on the hemisphere we share.


FYI.
Americans consist of all residents of the "western hemisphere" or what the Europeans called their New World and thence named places with strange names like, New York, New England, New Jersey, New Mexico, etc.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Or since you seem to perceive that there is an inherent inequity in the rule of taxation, you could just make a payment to the State of California as a payment in lieu of taxation so as to even the dealings.

....

Wow, you really misread my motivations. I'm just trying to decide what state I might end up returning the boat to when we finish cruising. Want to have a good understanding of the use-tax issue and not get blindsided by it, especially if I'm only there 6 months or so. Cal stands out as an oddity where they forego the tax if you have used the boat over a year. Pretty different from most east coast states and for Wa.

So not sure why you'd suggest I pay Cal anything as I currently have nothing to do with the state and would be more likely to donate to a different charity.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Wow, you really misread my motivations. I'm just trying to decide what state I might end up returning the boat to when we finish cruising. Want to have a good understanding of the use-tax issue and not get blindsided by it, especially if I'm only there 6 months or so. Cal stands out as an oddity where they forego the tax if you have used the boat over a year. Pretty different from most east coast states and for Wa.

So not sure why you'd suggest I pay Cal anything as I currently have nothing to do with the state and would be more likely to donate to a different charity.

Ha, I was pulling your leg Paul.

Or perhaps your anchor chain.

You can use this simple form for all your tax reporting:

[piloto]

Originally Posted by Ruso

Thank you Montanan, My plan.. so far or one of the possible plans..
1. Make private party transaction - get bill of sale - run out of CA collecting all gas receipts as evidence.
2. Register the boat in the AZ (no AZ tax on private party transfer)
3. File USCG, travel to CA and RUN the boat out to Ensenada even hiring shipper to get her out of CA 3 mile line.
I can continue to my work from anywhere as long as I have internet and phone. Ultimate goal is deliver the boat to Sea of Cortez San Carlos. I just don't see anything worthy in La Paz or San Carlos - not for listed price.. Most of the boats there just left on hard because they not qualified anymore to sail back to US without serious investment...Out of 10 listed in my price range - 9 is fixer uppers..
Waiver is interesting concept.. could you elaborate on it more? I was thinking along this line sending letter to CA tax authorities outlining my plans and asking for reply letter.

Take specified delivery “offshore”...Document the vessel with USCG in the USVI. Paper chase consists of transfer of COD listing designated home port. Problem solved, no tax. All done online and initial registration cost of $84, after that annually $26.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Ha, I was pulling your leg Paul.

Or perhaps your anchor chain.

You can use this simple form for all your tax reporting:

Now you want to drag this into an anchor argument about what chain to use in what state?
I used a similar tax form this year that I got from Turbotax.

[Ruso]

Originally Posted by piloto

Take specified delivery “offshore”...Document the vessel with USCG in the USVI. Paper chase consists of transfer of COD listing designated home port. Problem solved, no tax. All done online and initial registration cost of $84, after that annually $26.

“offshore” is valid option. I don't think I have to register the boat in any state if I departing outside of US. But... timing is THE factor.. USCG registration takes months.. and they share data transfer with CA. Even seller shares data in DMV CA when removing registration. Any state registration takes days.. Longer the boat sitting in CA boundaries - more prove you have to provide to avoid property tax. There is some timing allowance to keep the boat in CA while repairing/preparing for the departure.. 3 months?? with prove... by the way.. Going with AZ registration makes the boat ready to go in mater of days.

[piloto]

I agree that you don’t have to register in any state if you really do leave upon delivery offshore. As to document, aside from when the gooberment **** down earlier this year, documentation with a couple of boats over the last several years, has only taken a couple of weeks. Easy to do, online with or without specific state registration.

[Ruso]

Originally Posted by piloto

I agree that you don’t have to register in any state if you really do leave upon delivery offshore. As to document, aside from when the gooberment **** down earlier this year, documentation with a couple of boats over the last several years, has only taken a couple of weeks. Easy to do, online with or without specific state registration.

If it is couple weeks the offshore deliver bill of sale might have precondition that the boat stays on the seller marina slip without any "usage" until the USCG documentation received and the boat released to the buyer (me) with separate release agreement signed on departure to MX. Technically I can wait in AZ for the USCG certificate with all current receipt collected proving I am away from the boat.

[carlwk3c]

Originally Posted by bradfordharley

I used Paul when I bought my boat and was very satisfied; his options are accurate from all my research.

It all depends on your long term plans, what your costs will be.
1–offshore delivery and out of country for a year. Mexico is great.
2. Pay tax.
Note—. If you bring your boat into California and are in a marina, they will report that and the state will come looking for property tax. There are stipulatuons(they are online) for how long your boat can be in Cali without paying property tax
There is no free lunch. Pay the tax man or leave the us.

Leave the US is by far the better option. CG documented vessel is easier than state registrations in other countries.