Realistic expectations for financing a 24 month trip. Canada.

[chris mac]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Where does this news come from ? I have NEVER heard of any problems with unseaworthy ducks.
Picture above is a 41' duck rounding Cape Horn, probably a worse place for weather than anything in the Pacific. Obviously one needs to use fish when the sea is beam on. They usually have provision for a stabilizing sail too. Usually the ducks are getting 3-4Nm/gal Thus a 3000 mile passage needs 750-1000 gal at a cost of $1500-$2000. A circumnavigation about 10x that or $15-20k + more depending on how indirect your route is. In terms of overall costs, thats not a huge amount of money. The Nordhaven yachts are notoriously thirsty and expensive.

Duck 41 study

Pretty sure they confused it with a duck boat. Those tourist boatlike amphibious things that dont behave much like boats

content://com.android.chrome.FileProvider/images/screenshot/15975280738203146119523217746447.jpg

[Fore and Aft]

Chris Mac maybe you could take one of those ducks around the world? It's already been done in a WW2 jeep.
I can't see a power boat working if you are voyaging on a budget.
Cheers
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-...nture-/6563962

[Westcliffe01]

The money I have seen sailboat owners pay for re-rigging and new sails is eye watering. Its pretty much the same as saying that solar power is free, but you need to spend $35k or more to get setup... And those items wear and need to be kept up all the time. How many people buy a boat and dont need to spend a dime on rigging and sails ? If they start out that way, it doesnt take too long of putting miles under the keel before they realize that the sails are blown out or that stays are starting to fail etc... Then potentially leading to some interesting problems having new stays made and shipped to a remote location for replacement and hoping every measurement was dead nuts on.


There are definitely a LOT more options when going with a sailboat because there are simply so many of them out there. But "ready to go" thats a different story.

[Westcliffe01]

Here are some pics of a NZ Tri.


Made from welded Al, 45hp single diesel. Cruise speed 10kt, max 14kt
claimed fuel consumption 7.7Nm/gal at 10kts

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Where does this news come from ? I have NEVER heard of any problems with unseaworthy ducks.
Picture above is a 41' duck rounding Cape Horn, probably a worse place for weather than anything in the Pacific. Obviously one needs to use fish when the sea is beam on. They usually have provision for a stabilizing sail too. Usually the ducks are getting 3-4Nm/gal Thus a 3000 mile passage needs 750-1000 gal at a cost of $1500-$2000. A circumnavigation about 10x that or $15-20k + more depending on how indirect your route is. In terms of overall costs, thats not a huge amount of money. The Nordhaven yachts are notoriously thirsty and expensive.

Duck 41 study

OK that’s a duck of a different feather so to speak.
These are the Ducks I am aware of: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW

Here’s their recent history: https://abc7news.com/amp/duck-boat-t...on-mo/3793587/


I’m curious about your fuel costs. $2/gal average?

[Westcliffe01]

True for Michigan right now. Gulf coast closer to $1/gal at present.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WDFUELUSGULF

[Westcliffe01]

George Buehler was the father of the Diesel duck series of designs. Generally made from steel or plywood and glass. Some were made in Aluminum. They became popular and he sought yards to build them in the far east. Seahorse Marine started building their version of the duck as a molded glass fiber boat, more of a production boat, less one off custom. George died not very long ago, I think it is still possible to get plans. http://georgebuehler.com

Diesel Ducks Home Page

Originally Posted by Adelie

OK that’s a duck of a different feather so to speak.
These are the Ducks I am aware of: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW

Here’s their recent history: https://abc7news.com/amp/duck-boat-t...on-mo/3793587/


I’m curious about your fuel costs. $2/gal average?

[Flagfish]

I bought an Albin Vega, spent a year learning to sail it, then sailed from BC to San Fran and on to Hawaii with a friend and singlehanded home.

That was 5 years ago. I'd comfortably take that $12,000 boat anywhere.

If the trip is about adventure, go small, go cheap, go now. Just a thought here: it's possible you are creating your own barriers. You definitely don't need a large boat in the tropics.

[nofacey]

Most of these guys are blowing smoke - I’ve taken a cruising boat with a loan offshore before...bank didn’t care where it was, just that it had insurance. The Insurers cared where it was! Primarily to stay away from hurricanes. Expect insurance premiums to cost about 1.5% of insured value to minimum of $500.

Bank loans are based upon your financial history, single digit interest rates for a working man right now = good time to do this. Ask three banks for a boat loan, you’ll find your rate PDQ.

How much you spend = how much do you have. Very very much true for most. Can you get away on almost nothing (over & above those boat payments). Yep, but boat will be wearing down around you, so the smallest, simplest boat you (& yours?) can be comfortable on only helps.

Things to stay away from if you want to minimize costs: marinas, restaurants, water makers, gensets, freezers, autopilots.

Things to do - eat local provisions, cooked by you. Only turn the motor on when you must.....plan on long slow passages through the doldrums. Invest in solar to the degree you can.....then live within that electrical ability (‘cause otherwise you’re turning on that engine). Use a windvane.

If you’re planning to work from the boat on passage.....better figure out the electrical load for the computer, video screen(s) & iridium too....what’s trivial at home can add up offshore......and while I used & appreciated an IridiumGO, it sure was not fast.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Adelie

A Duck? Really? Stability is adequate for protected waters. Even then they occasionally sink. If I recall correctly the NTSB is recommending they be removed from commercial service.

Regarding trawler vs sail.
I have acquaintances the took a trawler around. 46’ Nordhaven. The cruises at 6kt and spent $59k just on fuel.
When the stabilizers stopped working (which was only occasionally) they put out ‘fish’ which dropped speed to 5.0-5.5kt for the same fuel burn. Without some sort of stabilizing the boat could be very unpleasant. There are tuned damping tanks that could be installed that use no power Directly nor cost in drag like ‘fish’. They take up space and add some mass which increases drag marginally.

For a 40’ or so sailboat you can expect to AVERAGE 5.0kt over the LONG-term assuming little or no motoring.
I would rather be in a 30’ sailboat than a 46’ Nordhavn during heavy weather offshore.
With a sailboat you have redundancy in propulsion. Redundant propulsion on a trawler usually involves dual motors which entails penalties in weight, fuel efficiency, complexity and maintenance load.

I spent about 5 years as a full time delivery skipper out of San Francisco. I got in tight with the Norhavm crowd and delivered several dozen from Socal to PNW, over 1000 nms north into prevailing seas, usually nonstop (I know of very few sailors who can do that consistently). I stopped delivering sailboats as they are cod, wet, uncomfortable, and there are many more ways to get injured on a sailboat than a well found trawler yacht - more reasons to go forward, and lifelines are a joke compared to heavy steel handrails

As far as statements on fuel, I can tell you a sistership to my Willard 36 trawler went from San Diego to Hawaii and burned 335 gallons of diesel over 2400 miles and averaged just over 6 kts.

To the OP - with a loan, you will need full insurance coverage. Given my recent experience where liability coverage only is in the $500/yr range, I suspect the numbers being tossed out are very low. But maybe you Canadians get a better deal

Good luck.

Peter

[nightowle]

I agree with Nofacey....lots of smoke blowing here vis a vis lenders and offshore passage. You sound like a guy with a solid career who is probably assured of your future employment. Many, many people borrow for their boat acquistions. The norm is 20% down. Right now in the US rates depend on borrowed amount and age of the boat. They are running approximantely 4-4.75% (This would exclude any wood boats). They'll want to see a purchase survey to make sure the vessel is sound. Your best bet is to speak to a marine loan broker as well as a marine insurance broker to get the skinny on what those costs could be for boats you have in mind now. Also, you'll be keyed into the "no go" weather areas during certain times of the year.